Follow Jesus, hone your craft
Jordan Raynor sits down with Wendy Speake, Author of The 40-Day Social Media Fast, to talk about how she sold 100K+ copies of her first self-published book, the moment she heard God tell her to “hone her craft,” and the impact “social media fasts” are having on Christ-followers.
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00:00:05] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work, for the glory of God and the good of others. Every week, I host a conversation with a Christ follower, who is also pursuing world-class mastery of their craft. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits and how their faith influences their work.
Today’s guest is Wendy Speake. She’s the author of a few massive best-selling books including Triggers and The 40-Day Social Media Fast. She’s a terrific writer and marketer, obviously both key ingredients to being a masterful author. Wendy and I recently sat down. We talked about how she sold more than 100,000 copies of the first self-published book. We talked about the impact that a conversation she had early in her life had about honing her craft. We talked about the impact that social media fast are having on Christ followers in their work and at home. Please enjoy this conversation with my friend, Wendy Speake.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:01:20] JR: Wendy, thanks for being here.
[00:01:21] WS: You’re welcome. I’m super excited. Actually, I have a huge smile on my face. This is a conversation I’ve been looking forward to.
[00:01:27] JR: Well, I was going to say. I mean, you and I have traded quite a few emails over the years.
[00:01:32] WS: You’re my friend without being one of my friends. I totally went along with Kelly. I’m like, “Hey, I’m friends with someone that’s a friend with you and I have some questions.” And you’ve been so generous with me, so I’m really grateful for that.
[00:01:44] JR: I’m happy to do it and likewise, you felt like a good friend from afar, but this is actually the first time we’ve ever spoken live. We share this really great mutual friend, Kelli Stuart who has recorded what’s still one of my favorite episodes of this podcast, Episode No. 9. Kelly of course if you guys remember is the great writer of award-winning fiction. Wendy, first question. I’m really curious, you’ve known Kelly a lot longer than I have. Tell me something I don’t know about our mutual friend, Kelli Stuart. Maybe something embarrassing, please.
[00:02:14] WS: Oh, goodness! I met them almost immediately after Matt and I got married and moved to — we moved from LA where I was living to Dallas, Texas where my new husband was. My only husband. He wasn’t just a new husband. I mean, he was the only husband that I had.
[00:02:33] JR: Don’t worry.
[00:02:33] WS: And we started going to a church, and started going to a Sunday school class and Lee and Kelli Stuart were there. Just immediately, the guys connected. When they realized that Kelly was a writer and I was an actress who also loved to write, they thought that we would be great friends. I got Kelly’s phone number and this is more an embarrassing story on me than her, but it is her favorite story to tell on me, so I feel like it’s the right one. Supposedly I called and the first thing I said was, “So I hear you like to take tea.” Who says that? Apparently, I did 20 years ago.
We started this habit of meeting up at the Starbucks in Barnes & Noble in Plano, Texas and we would sit and we would share story ideas, share our dreams. At that point, I was still writing screenplays, just thinking maybe the Lord is going to open up an opportunity for that at some point. When I was working in Hollywood as an actress, I just kept thinking, you know, I think it’s screenplays that I want to do.
We did a lot of reading each other’s work and over the years, even after having children, trying to fit in where we were going to do our creative work when it didn’t naturally fit into that mothering season of so many little ones, we decided to host creative retreats for moms and our husbands are so supportive. We hosted five of them, and we would get together and everyone had their own room and we would write during the days. At night, we would have wonderful meals and share what we had written and just share our dreams together.
[00:04:14] JR: That’s awesome. So those Barnes & Noble meetings, it was you and Kelly and your own little and inklings meeting.
[00:04:19] WS: It was.
[00:04:20] JR: We were just talking about Lewis before we started recording, one of my favorite topics. You mentioned acting prior to writing books. Talk about that transition, talk about your story. You started at Hollywood. You’re working as an actress. How did you get to the place? How did God lead you to the place where you’re writing nonfiction these days?
[00:04:41] WS: Well, I love that you said how did God lead you, and really, it’s is my favorite story to tell of God leading in my life. I don’t know if you’ve ever had one of those moments where God speaks so clearly, your spirit feels like it’s an auditory communication. I mean, it was audible. It’s so strong, it’s so clear and I was a freshman in college in Boston. I’ve gone to Boston because there was an acting coach I had wanted to study with. Even in high school, I had gone to LA County High School for the Arts and studied acting. I mean, this is what I wanted to do. I never wanted to do anything else, except for when I was very young. I wanted to be a taxi driver. I mean, a truck a driver and have a full rig. But outside of that, it’s only been acting.
As a freshman in college, in Boston, I was very sick. In the Brownstones, the heat was different than I’m used to in LA. Inside the house — it was cold outside and I had this terrible bronchial infection for most of the winter. One night, I’m sitting in the bathroom in my dorm room with the shower, the steam going as well as, I Vicks throughout all of my chest. I was drinking the Robitussin out of the bottle. It’s possible that I was a little bit loopy. But God spoke so clearly and he said — because I was crying out, “God, what do you want me to do? I don’t think I’m supposed to be in Boston. I do think I’m supposed to study acting, but I feel like you have something very specific for me. What is it? And you’ve got my yes.” That becomes really the prayer of my life. “Tell me what to do. You’ve got my yes.”
He said so clearly three things. He said, “You keep loving me, you keep loving others and hone your craft. Keep loving me, keep loving others and hone your craft and I will bring those three things together.” I knew in the moment that it was something very specific. I thought that perhaps I would be writing one-woman shows, touring around and doing one-woman shows that allowed me to transition into Bible teaching or the gospel. That’s really what I thought it would be for the next 18 years. I was just kind of waiting for God to swing open those doors as I continue to love him, pursue him in his work. Love others and share Christ with them and hone my craft as an actor and writer, but mostly as an actor.
I struggled so much in Hollywood to find the right opportunities. I had plenty of opportunities to audition and even go straight to producers for films and TV shows that we’re so opposed not only to the gospel but my sensibilities as a Christ follower. Really all those opportunities weren’t opportunities and it was very stressful. Around that time, I met my husband. We were long-distance sweethearts, got married very fast. I moved to Texas and almost immediately started writing.
[00:07:58] JR: I love it. So today, this phenomenally successful writer of nonfiction. I mean, your book, you’ve had a couple of major books. By the way, we share something in our stories as writers. We never talked about this obviously, but we both started self-publishing, and then moved to traditional. I know we got a lot of people listening to this episode who are really curious about self versus traditional publishing, so I want to camp here for just a second. Let’s just be honest, right? Your self-published books are exponentially more successful than my own. Triggers was a big deal, right? How many copies of that book have you guys sold?
[00:08:39] WS: We launched it four years ago, I believe, but maybe coming close to five and we sold I think — I mean, you count the audio and the e-book and the [inaudible 00:08:51] back. We’ve hit 100,000 just recently.
[00:08:55] JR: Guys, that’s a lot of books. There’s a reason why when you hit a 100,000, they slap 100,000 on the label. My wife read Triggers, loved Triggers. I’m curious, what did you guys do right with that’s self-published? Because a self-published title usually doesn’t sell 1,000 copies. Right? Your data support this. What did you guys do right?
[00:09:17] WS: Yeah. I really want to give practical help to those listening and I’m a little bit concerned of sounding too just, “Well Jesus, he did it.” But there was this element of, you know that prayer that I prayed when I was 18, when I said, “God, whatever you want you’ve got my yes.” In a way, I feel like God swept me up in a narrative that he had been writing, which I do believe that is what our lives are like and I did learn things in the process. But in the way, instead of going into Triggers with only smart ideas, I felt like Triggers was my master’s, was my with my master class in how to be masterful at writing and launching a book.
I never thought of myself as a masterful marketeer or even writer at that point, but I learned so much in the process. The story is that Amber Lia and I were writing for a website for moms. The woman who owned the website said, “I’m getting so many emails from moms who are struggling with anger. Would anybody be willing to host a private Facebook group?” Amber was the first one to say yes. I think I wasn’t quite yet writing on that team. Actually, Kelly was writing for the same website and I think she was the one that said, “Hey, you got to have my friend, Wendy.” Anyway, I came over and Amber at that point was saying, “Too many, thousands of women are joining this group. I can’t handle it on my own.” I said, “Well, I might know a thing or two about struggling with mommy anger.” “Okay, I’ll appoint you.”
In that group one day, I very casually said, “So what are your triggers?” and it needed no explanation and thousands of women responded, “Why can’t they get their shoes onand get in the car? Sibling rivalry. My hormones are out of whack. My husband is constantly traveling, I’m doing it all on my own, all the noise, all the mess” and on, and on and on. The next day, Amber wrote a post and said, “We’re not here to teach you how to get your children to learn to get their shoes on and get in the car so you don’t have to be angry. Let’s focus on what’s going on with us in those triggered moments.” We just started going through it one at a time.
I’m leading to answer to your question here, a very specific one. We wrote the book day by day in that group with maybe 18,000 people at that point. They started begging for it to be given to them in some way like a collection of these posts. “Would you please put this together as a book?” So very quickly, we did. Kelly and I had sat under — oh, goodness! Shot, shot, shot. What’s the teaching? He wrote a book called Marketing Like Wildfire and I can’t think of his name right now, but Kelly and I went to a breakout session at a writer’s conference where he spoke. One of the main things he said was, “Give all your content away. Give it away. Give it away. Give it away. Give it away now.” I had already done that and seen the following and I was like, “Yeah, that makes sense,” because then you grow your audience before you release your book. You have your following. They’ve already told you that they wanted and it was one thing you did so beautifully just with little squares on Instagram, Jordan before Called to Create.
You may not have given away the content, but you gave away enough of allure that people were asking for more of it. I think we try just be really like, “Well, I want to be quiet. This is mine. I don’t want anyone else start writing about it I don’t want to share too much where they won’t buy the book.” I think that the main thing that I learn was give it away.
The next big book that I had was The 40-Day Sugar Fast and I have been hosting an online 40- Day Sugar Fast for six years and had 15,000, 20,000 people signing up for it annually. At that point I was like, “Well, I know that I could make more money if I self-publish, but I feel like maybe I’m supposed to traditionally publish this one.”
[00:13:51] JR: I want to come back. I want to pause there because I think that’s a really important question to talk about the difference and why you made the leap to traditional. But real quick, I just want to make sure that our audience hears crystal clearly what you’re saying because there’s so much wisdom here. Build your audience first, give away as much content as you possibly can. By the way, as you do that, it’s a means of testing concepts and figuring out what people resonate with. I know a lot of people who are like, “God’s given me a gift as a writer, as a communicator but I don’t know the topic.” My advice is, place little bets as many as you possibly can through a blog, through a podcast. I publish a lot of content on YouVersion’s Bible app. In fact, pretty much all of my books are in one of 30 something YouVersion plans, right? But it’s a great, great way to test content, to find the right book concept at the same time that you build an audience.
Here’s what I learned and it sounds like you learned this too with Triggers. People will pay for packaging, right? People will pay for you to take what otherwise they would have to, you know, go to 30 different places for 30 different devotionals, 30 different blog posts, whatever and consolidate it into a $10 package. They’ll pay for that. That’s worth $10, right?
[00:15:14] WS: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:15:16] JR: All right. You made the leap to traditional publishing, you signed with Baker who I wrote with on Called to Create. Why make the leap to traditional publishing? I think a lot of people are curious about this, especially people who have already self-published. Why make the leap at it?
[00:15:32] WS: They’re successful at it, yeah. Well, and when you self-publish a book, it’s very easy and one of my passions is keeping the cost of books low. I know that that’s not popular in book publishing, but for me, especially because every book I’ve written points to the gospel. I just am a little uncomfortable with hawking the gospel. I really enjoyed the fact that everything that I’ve written, I’ve given away for free. If I’m going to package it — well, for the sugar fast, a lot of the women that want that are Midwestern housewives. Triggers, stay-at-home moms. I’m not looking to take advantage and put out a really pricey book, so I like having some of the creative freedom, I like having the price freedom. I’ve learned that minimum, 70% of most books, but I think it’s closer to 80%, 85% of books are purchased on Amazon.
[00:16:35] JR: Let’s say it’s closer to 98%.
[00:16:39] WS: It may be. The only books that sell well in stores are by famous people who have been doing it for a long time. You can of course find The Purpose Driven Life, you can find Max Lucado’s books, you can find Lisa Tucker’s books, you can find Amvas Camp books. I’m not Amvas Camp. I am — I’ve got a nice little humble start of building a social media following, but I’m not a huge author, so I don’t expect to get into stores and yet I have this sense that I think The 40-Day Sugar Fast is going to go beyond me.
I told my agent, “Why don’t we send it out there to publisher?” But I said to him, “I want you to know, I might still choose to self-publish.” We had such a resounding yes interest. We have five offers and I took that as confirmation that the book publishers sought and said, “Not only can we make a buck off your hard work and what you’re already doing online, but we’ve got a vision for what we can do.” I actually with a couple of these publishers, I had multiple phone interviews where I was interviewing them about their marketing team and that was the first time I called you and said, “Tell me the lowdown on Baker publishing,” and you had so many wonderful things to say that I ended up taking your advice and going with Baker.
[00:18:15] JR: Listen, I made that call. So I self-published two books. I went with Baker on Called to Create. I went with Random House on Master of One. As my audience turned, I just signed a five-book deal with Random House. I’m all in on traditional publishing. Actually, we just launched a course recently called How to Land a Book Deal with No Platform because with Called to Create, we really didn’t -- we had some Instagram followers, but when we actually got the deal, we had nothing. When the book launched, we had a platform. But when we signed the deal, we didn’t.
In the course, I kind of break down like how we did it, how we pulled that off. In it, I talked about the eight reasons why today I’m all in on traditional versus self-publishing. There are a couple reasons that I would still recommend self-publishing. By the way, if you’re curious about this, you guys can actually watch the first lesson of that course for free at access@jordanraynor.com and that first lesson breaks down all the differences between those things. But you’ve had a good experience in traditional publishing, right?
[00:19:17] WS: Yeah, I have. I don’t know if you know this but not only was it in all the typical brick-and-mortar’s like the Barnes & Noble bookstores that it ended up in Target, it ended up in Hobby Lobby, I think has been biggest book seller of The 40-Day Sugar Fast. They just agreed to carry The 40-Day Social Media Fast, which is the next book. So did Target. Target is going to carry The 40-Day Social Media Fast in all 1700 plus stores throughout the US.
[00:19:52] JR: Oh my gosh!
[00:19:53] WS: I mean, I’m just sitting here —
[00:19:54] JR: That’s amazing.
[00:19:55] WS: — with my jaw on the floor going, “What?” Because you know, books are just supposed to sell online unless you’re famous and I’m landing, I’m not famous. It’s just been really cool to watch this process. I still have the sense though that I’m going to do some more self-publishing. I really enjoy the bead with which you can self-publish. If you hit a felt need in that moment and you don’t want to wait two years, then self-publishing is a great option.
[00:20:26] JR: Well, I think we saw a lot of self-publishing in 2020, right? With COVID and race relations and really hot topics, people had to get to market fast, so self-publishing is usually the only way to get there. Hey, you brought up The 40-Day Social Media Fast. I’m so glad you did because this podcast is all about the pursuit of mastery so that we can glorify God and serve others really well. I’ve talked a lot in the past on this podcast, in my book, Master of One about how in my opinion and according to the data, right? One of the keys to mastering your craft, whether you’re a writer, or a marketer, or an entrepreneur, whatever is deep work. It’s the ability to focus without distraction for huge chunks of time to get stuff done. To do that, man, today, in our modern day and age, social media is one of, if not the biggest distraction in our lives.
[00:21:27] WS: It is the biggest distraction, and maybe not just social media but --
[00:21:31] JR: No, it’s not.
[00:21:31] WS: — but the ringing-dinging presence of the phone, of the opened laptop.
[00:21:36] JR: Exactly. It’s the kingdom of noise as C.S. Lewis put in The Screwtape Letters. We are living in the kingdom of noise, it’s news services, it’s the phone, it’s the laptop, it’s social. I’m curious, was it your pursuit of master of your craft, of honing your craft that led you to this point where you care so deeply about this social media fast concept?
[00:22:01] WS: No. That sounds like a wonderful idea. I did read Deep Work by Cal Newport and it did affect me deeply. I’m also a mom of three teenage boys and I started writing right before starting to have children, so I’ve always had distractions. However, I’ll tell you how this social media fast came to be and then I want to talk more about this idea of silencing those distractions so that we can do the deep work, whatever that deep work is. It was in leading The 40-Days Sugar Fast year after year in an online setting that I would say, “This really isn’t about sugar. God never called us to a sugar sacrifice. He called us to a living sacrifice.” So if you’re turning to sugar instead of turning to him, lay it down, turn to him. That’s what we’re doing. That’s sugar fast in a nutshell.
During those 40 days, I would say, “Because this isn’t about sugar, what else it is? What else are you turning to?” We’re going from sugar high to sugar high instead of turning to the Most High. Is there another God that is on the throne of your life? Is your phone on the throne? Is there a digital demigod? Over and over I heard people say, “Yes, sugar is an issue, but my phone, please somebody help me with social media.” It was on the context of already fasting with this very Jesus-hungry community. Well, I wrote the book for them because they asked for it and that’s sort of the same ideas what my Triggers experience had been. I knew I hit a felt need so I wrote into that need rather than trying to figure out what I want to write about and try to get other people on board with reading what I wanted to write. I found what’s the need and I press into that. That’s how it came to be.
I want to tell you what the subtitle of the book is, because I think it really will help us focus on our craft now. That is Exchanging Online Distractions for Real-Life Devotion. In the book, we focus a lot on devotion to God instead of social media. Let’s get social with him instead of social media. Let’s get social with the real-life flesh and blood blessings that God’s given us in our homes, in our lives, in friendship but also neighbors and the people, not only online but inline in the grocery store. We’re so distracted that we aren’t even ambassadors in our real lives anymore, because we’re so distracted.
However, let’s go to the next step and let’s talk about what we we’re doing, what we’re called to do in his image, in whatever it is we’re putting our hands to right now that takes focus honing the craft, mastery, work, and why aren’t we doing it. I think the answer is we are distracted bunch of ragamuffins.
[00:25:09] JR: Yeah. I completely agree. What do about that? Because I’ve learned that — I don’t think people need to be convinced this is a problem.
[00:25:19] WS: No, they don’t. You’re right.
[00:25:20] JR: I think three years ago, maybe. We still need to be convinced this is a problem. Everybody gets this is a problem, but what’s the solution to the problem in your opinion?
[00:25:30] WS: Right. Well, Cal Newport has a follow-up to Deep Work, Digital Minimalism.
[00:25:35] JR: Yeah, great book.
[00:25:35] WS: It was in that book that I learned just this one takeaway that I think is huge and I use it when I’m fasting as well, as I get my other fasting friends to prepare to kind of go back into life beyond the fast. I say, “Instead of figuring out what hours you’re going to set your phone down, which hours you’re going to keep all of the emails, and notifications, and news notifications at bay.” Okay, you know, I used to say when the kids were young, “Honey” to my husband, “Let’s put our phones away from dinner time until bedtime.” That was a good block of focus time so we can do the deep work of parenting. We could say, “Okay, but my writing block is from 9:00 to 1:00. Okay. During that time, let’s put the phone away.”
In Digital Minimalism, Cal Newport says, instead of choosing which times you’re going to put your phone away, choose the times you’re going to pick your phone up. That to me is like mind-blowing. It sounds the same. It really sounds the same, but you’re saying, “I lived my life undistracted; however, because I have work and because I have relationships, I need to take a break from that focus life and be distracted for a moment by other things. And in a way, I’m not distracted because I’m opening up with intentionality.” I’m saying I have some things I need to do. I have work I do online You have work you do online.
One of the things I’m assuming that you’ve done that I know that I’ve done is, I’ve delegated. I’ve hired people now. I’ll send an email or a Google doc to my VA with all the quotes and the posts for social media Monday through Friday a month in advance. And she makes the graphics and templates that I’ve already made and approved. Then she schedules them ahead of time., I’m choosing things that will help limit my distractions.
[00:27:35] JR: Yeah. Here’s the mindset shift that I think is the difference maker between this mindset of choosing when to put my phone away and scheduling when I’ll pick it up. I’ve learned in talking with a lot of different people in this podcast and outside the podcast. It’s this mental hurdle that you’ve got to believe that you have control over when you respond to incoming messages. Whether it’s a Facebook message, or a text message, or an email, whatever. It is impossible, I believe ultimately to go deep at home or at work until you believe that pretty much nothing is urgent. And you have a plan in place for letting the VIPs in your life reach you as something is urgent. This is like the key to mastery. It’s just confining the times of which you are going to be responsive. And doing it in a responsible way that serves the people you’re serving through your work and through your life at home really well.
[00:28:37] WS: If you don’t mind. I want to just comment on one thing you said.
[00:28:40] JS: Please, yeah.
[00:28:41] WS: You said that learning that you have control over this is huge. One of the things that I’ve noticed when inviting people online to get offline is they don’t feel that they do have control. One of the things I’ve said is, The 40-Day Social Media Fast is not a digital detox. It is saying, “I don’t have the self-control and so I’m going to for 40 days submit to God’s control. I’m making this a spiritual discipline over an area of my life where I lack self-control. I’m going to actually abide with Christ in such a focused way that I will grow the fruit of self-control in my life, but I’m logging off because I’m out of control and I’m giving God control over this out-of-control area of my life.” Whether that’s eating or social media, but in this case social media.
I have learned during those times when I log off and now, even a week before I log off for an extended period of time, I get giddy, Jordan. I get like giddy, like before you go on a vacation, I almost feel like I’m packing my bags for a virtual vacation. I noticed the very first time I took a prolonged fast from social media. I walk different, like my hands were swinging by my side and I realized, “Oh, it’s because my hands are empty.” Things just started to change. When I came back, I thought I don’t really want to. I feel like I need to come back, but I started putting boundaries in place and I think we don’t want boundaries. We think boundaries are going to be a killjoy. But when you think about like the straps that come over your shoulders to go on a roller coaster, those are boundaries. They keep you in, they hold you in, they keep you safe, they keep you alive. So if you do a loop-de-loop, you don’t fall out and die on a roller coaster.
I’ve learned that fasting from social media whether it’s for blocks in the day or all-day Sunday and 40 days during Lent really helps me to recognize, you know, I get to a place of being out of control. I give God control and it becomes a spiritual discipline. Because without it being a spiritual discipline, I find that I justify. Well, you know, I know I don’t usually, but I right now I need to because. Another boundary that I set for myself that has helped me as a writer, but also as simply a follower of Christ is, I put the word before the world. It is my number one commitment to open the word of God each morning before I open myself up to the worldwide web or anyone else in the world.
Sometimes I talk to my husband and my children beforehand, but before I check if there’s an email for me in the morning, before I find out how my post went last night that I thought might be really engaging, I’m going to engage with the one who made the world, not everybody else in the world. And prepares me to receive, to hear from God about what my work is for the day. I mean, time in the word shapes when I write that day, almost always. I know it sounds like it’s not part of our writing strategy, but it’s part of our strategy as Christ followers and it influences my writing.
[00:32:20] JR: Oh, yeah, absolutely. For me, I have a similar habit. My phone goes to bed at 7:30 PM, and I don’t let it out of its room until 7:00 AM. I wake up at 5:00 AM and 5:00 to 6:00 is time in the word, 6:00 to 7:00 is time with my kids. Then 7:00, I’m starting to get ready for the day. Actually, I want to take the conversation a different direction. Talk me through the tick-tock of your day, right? From the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, what is the timeline of a typical day for Wendy look like?
[00:32:54] WS: I will tell you a little bit about that and then I’ll tell you how I’ve learned to write anyway.
[00:33:00] JR: Please, yeah.
[00:33:00] WS: Because I’m an easily overwhelmed person. I’ve learned this about myself. I don’t know if you ever talked about the enneagram. I’m a four, I’m just an over creative. I get easily overwhelmed with a lot of emotion and I have three children and a husband who are not -- what’s the word? I want to make sure I’m speaking well of them. They have high needs of me. I homeschool my three sons part-time through a charter, and there are learning challenges and there’s behavioral stuff that has led me to do so much personal work that it overflowed and it Triggers. I have a very hands-on life at home.
I’m doing this interview from my she shed. My husband built me a place to go and right now that the boys are older, I can do that. Well, I do have a writing working block in my basement. I wake up around six, I open up the word. I like to open up a paper Bible because I love to mark it up, and underline and highlight asterisk, and write notes, and write prayers and write letters to my children in it. I mean, I’m just a very interactive Bible reader.
Right now, I’m enjoying however early in the morning listening to the word on my phone. So I’ve been doing that recently. So however it looks like, that is what I do first. Then I get up. I make everybody breakfast, which our friend Kelly who is -- she writes more words than anybody else I know. She’s a fast writer and a hard writer and I’m a slow writer. She keeps telling me, “Your kids can make their own breakfast. Get to work.” But it is just what I’ve done from the beginning and what I prioritize. So we sit down at the table together, we read through a proverb together and make sure the kids have what they need for the day.
Then once everybody is settled, I get out and I do my work. I have learned to work with a checklist next to me, a legal-sized pad of paper and I’ll either start on yesterday’s list that I didn’t complete. But what I like to do is find those pieces I didn’t complete and do a fresh page, because it focuses my mind. I told you, I learned that I’m an easily overwhelmed person. I have learned that I am masterful at a few things, but I fail at everything if I have to do everything. Everything must have —
[00:35:40] JR: I think we’re all the same way, yeah.
[00:35:43] WS: I get very easily overwhelmed. Then one of the chapters I did not put in the book Triggers, the things that set us off at our kids is, I found that writing Triggers was one of my biggest triggers. Writing or doing anything that really takes my focus time can make it so I’m very short tempered with my children unless I’ve learned where writing belongs and where family belongs. If I know how those things fit together, then I can be fully present when I’m writing and I can be fully present when I’m mothering. Sometimes, I need to stop being fully present in my work life because there’s a need that comes up and I’m willing to prioritize that.
Just the other day, I was doing a Zoom party with the launch team from this latest book, and I had 50 people and it just hopped on the Zoom party and they were going to tell me their testimonies of how they interacted with the Lord during the 40-day social media fast. It was day 40 and they were about to come back online. Four minutes into it, my son ran in and said , “Emergency.” And I left and I never came back. I ended up taking a child to the emergency room.
[00:36:54] JR: Oh my gosh.
[00:36:54] WS: I went through the picture of, there must be a place for writing, there must be a place for family. And yet, sometimes, we must let go and go to the people that need us in that moment. But I have learned because it’s hard for me to work in a focused way in our daily life here, I find that during those three-hour blocks, I’m very good at scheduling social media, maybe writing a blog post. I’m not good at writing a book in three-hour blocks and I wish that I was. But I’ve done a lot of careful analysis and talking it through with my husband, and I found that when I have three days, I can write three chapters.
Once every other month or so, my husband will take the boys on a camping trip. I’ve learned that that’s when my real book writing happens. Three days at a time over the course of five or six months. I do write during those three-hour blocks, but really the deep work, I need that much quiet for my soul to settle, my mind to really settle and to do the craft of writing.
[00:38:10] JR: One of the things I find really valuable is having space and time in between chunks of writing to make creative connections and to find analogies, whatever. For example, I just outlined the whole next book. I did something different this time. I outlined every single chapter in detail, and then went back to the beginning and wrote in full prose.
[00:38:30] WS: How did that work?
[00:38:31] JR: I loved it. I think I’ll always do it this way again.
[00:38:35] WS: That’s what I’ve heard from people.
[00:38:37] JR: Yeah, because previously, I would outline a full chapter and then I would write that chapter. Then I would outline the next chapter, write the next chapter. But this time, yeah, it was the time and space in between that I knew what was in the outline, so a lot of the best analogies came — in Chapter 1 came when I was outlining Chapter 6 four, five weeks later, whatever it is. That worked for me. Is that why you find it so valuable to take those big breaks in between chunks of writing or is it just the quietness of, I need to know that I’ve got three days of quite time?
[00:39:13] WS: I need to know and I think I’m so weird, but perhaps there are people listening and maybe specifically those who are juggling so many different hats right now. That when I know that I’ve got that three days coming up, it’s almost like I can rest in my other jobs. I can say, “I’m here.” I know I’ve got three days coming up and I work like crazy in the days leading up to them leaving. My house is spotless, they are packed, they are on their way, I’ve got my favorite foods. The temperature is right inside the house. If it’s lovely out, the windows are open. I mean, I’ve got it set up to be my most ideal work environment, and then I just go. I’m so joyful. I’m so joyful.
One of the nights, I’ll usually make a date with a friend to meet at a restaurant and I’ll take a good break and just laugh. But for the most part, those three days, it’s work, work, work and it’s such a delight. I mean, it’s my happy place. When I know they’re coming, I’ve told my husband, if I just know where they’re scheduled throughout the year, it brings me so much joy and relief. And if I have enough of them, then I know that due date for manuscript, that will happen. I will be ready and I usually turn in everything weeks in advance, because I’m not a procrastinator, but I am a planner.
[00:40:46] JR: Yeah, same here. We’ve mentioned Kelly a couple of times, Kelli Stuart. The book you wrote with her, Life Creative. I’ve read from cover to cover and it hits on one of my all-time favorite themes, that our creativity is a means of revealing the character of the Creator God. Can you talk for a minute about why this is so important to you?
[00:41:09] WS: Oh my goodness! Well, as a creator, I believe that everyone is made in the image of a very creative God. I think that we get stuck thinking that we know what creativity is supposed to look like. My father was an engineer for his whole career, so as my brother, so as my grandpa. I mean, I’ve got linear thinkers that raised me, but they’re creative thinkers. I mean, the way that they can make numbers and thoughts come together is very different than mine. But we’re all made in this image of God. Then there are also people that reflect different facets of God. Not so much what we see as the creative, but other compassion and that’s wonderful.
For me as a child, a very young child, I was standing on the hearth of our family home and singing for anyone that would come in the house. I knew I was going to be an actress by the time I was probably six years old, and I’ve always been creative and I’ve always loved Jesus. I mean, I’ve — Jesus, I had a sense lived in my heart before I knew what a heart was. So being creative at the core and being a Jesus lover at the core, the two just somehow went hand-in-hand for me at a young age.
As I learned about creativity as an opportunity to bring glory to God and to shine out into the world, it just made sense to me. I think that one of the things that I love so much about Life Creative as it debunks how creativity is supposed to look. You might have been a worship leader before having children. This is a book that was written specifically for moms who are very creative before having children and feel that they’ve lost themselves, their passions, their pleasures, opportunities.
In the book, we talked a lot about, no, it is who you are. It’s going to eke out of your life. It’s going to come out in some other ways, so be on the lookout for ways to enjoy your creativity and point your children to Christ in creative ways, whether it’s the way you host parties and the way that you help in the classroom. It’s one of my favorite conversations to have. I think we get busy and we think that we’ve lost our creativity but made in the image of a creative God, it’s always there. Sometimes it might take a little more effort to find those opportunities, to enjoy that in his image component, that facet.
[00:43:54] JR: I started exploring this idea, I don’t know, five, six years ago as I was starting to think about what would become Called to Create. It’s still to this day boggles my mind. The first pages of scripture God could have told us anything about him, he could have told us that he is just, that he is loving, that he is holy, that he is omnipotent. But the thing that he wanted our attention to focus on in the beginning was that he and we as this image bearers are creative and called to fill the earth.
That’s why I get so frustrated with children’s books about the creation account that treat day six as the end. Are you kidding me? Day six is when God pass the baton and said, “Hey, look at this canvas. Look at this canvas I just made.”
[00:44:46] WS: Passing that baton, I mean, I love it. He does it with creation and he does it with light bearing, which is so similar where he says, “I’m the light of the world.” Then he turns to his disciples and he says, “You’re the light of the world. I’m the creator. You’re creative. Go!” you’re right. It’s an absolute passing the baton.
[00:45:05] JR: He talks a lot about this, that from the beginning of time, God has always wanted to do his work in this world through us, through people, through his image bearers. Whether it was in the garden of Eden or now as we’re working towards the Garden City, the new heavens, the new Earth, the new Jerusalem. We’re called to do that work on his behalf.
[00:45:26] WS: I love it.
[00:45:27] JR: Wendy, in your bio, I loved this line you say, “The goal is the gospel, always,” and we talked a lot within our team that we’re not -- anything we do at Jordan Raynor Company, we don’t want to just be biblically-based, we wanted to be gospel-centric. There’s a difference in those two things. I’m curious for you, how does the gospel, the good news of Jesus in our redeemed selves and the redemption of the world, how does that shape your ambition to pursue master of your craft? Are those things connected in your mind? Does the gospel fuel you to want to get better as a writer, as a communicator?
[00:46:07] WS: I think, yes. I know, yes. I have always loved communicating well. I used this term, hone your craft is what God told me to do when I was 18 but he spoke into my innermost being with words that I was already using. When I was 15, 16 years old and driving and hour one way to get to school in downtown LA to hone my craft is an actress, as a kid, reading through all of Shakespeare, all of Aristotle’s elements of drama. I mean, I was really serious about my craft. I wanted to be a good storyteller.
Before I got the call from the Lord to be his storyteller, and when he made it clear that I was going to be his storyteller, then I knew that the quality of the storytelling had to be even better than what I thought at first. Growing up in LA, and then graduating from college and going back to LA and starting my acting career there, I would see all of the Christian films that were being produced and they were so, so well-intentioned, let’s say.
[00:47:35] JR: But so bad.
[00:47:37] WS: But so bad.
[00:47:38] JR: Yeah, let’s just go there. It’s terrible.
[00:47:40] WS: I started praying very specifically for screenwriters and for producers to produce excellent quality films that brought glory to God, encourage the church and gave opportunities to share gospel truth. Jesus as Redeemer truth with the world and didn’t make a mockery of the Christian faith in a very non-Christian culture in Hollywood and through Hollywood into the world. I actually — it was in that season after college working as an actress in LA that I wrote two feature-length screenplays. I knew as I wrote them, that they would never be produced. I knew it and I told myself, “Wendy, this is your master’s program. You are getting a master’s in writing, in screenwriting.” I love that it’s called a master’s program because that’s where you should gain mastery. I don’t want to go out into the world saying, “Hey, let’s do this story” and it is anything other than masterful, if it’s going to point to the master.
[00:49:01] JR: Yeah, and it doesn’t have to — those themes, those gospel themes don’t have to be overt. We talked a lot of this podcast, just revealing truth is winsome, but it’s got to first be true to the art form, right? It can’t make a mockery of whether it’s a book, or a business or film just because you slap a Christian label on it, it doesn’t mean anything to outsiders, right? In fact, it could mean a lot of negative things to outsiders. We got to be pursuing mastery of the craft, honing the craft itself and finding ways to use it to tell redemptive stories, which are just true stories, right? This is where the world is going. We know the truth and this could be a vehicle for it.
Last question on craft and kind of how your faith influences your work. You’re in launch mode, you’re getting ready to launch this 40-Day Social Media Fast. I know from personal experience; this is going to be a very nerve-racking time for authors. Is the book going to be we carried at Target? How many copies are we getting out at launch, whatever? What are you doing right now, you’re a week away from launch, what are you doing right now to remind yourself that you worth is not ultimately in your work but in the finished work of Jesus Christ?
[00:50:18] WS: Right. I have a prayer that I’ve been praying regularly and I’ve been going on walks this week. I sometimes can slip into an anxious place where it actually is anxiety, so I make sure I move my body and get some vitamin D outside. Because it’s easy to sit down and stay in your seat all day, because there’s so many emails and there are so many podcasts and there are so many guest post. Thank the Lord for these opportunities, I’m very grateful. But I must get up and I must move. As I move, I talk to the Lord.
My prayer is a simple, “I trust you go God. I trust you God. I am yours. I told you eons ago” not eons ago, “years ago, I’m your girl, you’ve got my yes, just tell me what to do. So that’s all I am, is your girl. That’s where my identity is. You’ve just swept me up into the story, but it is your story and I’m yours, so what peace that affords me.”
[00:51:17] JR: Yeah. I wrote a devotion recently where it’s basically like yeah, just calling myself and everyone reading to get lost in that bigger story. We are one of billions of actors that have been playing into God’s grand narrative of all time, and who cares about what the part is, who cares about what the role is and how high-profile it is. We’re participating in a grand narrative of time and where God is taking time to his eternal kingdom.
Wendy, three questions I asked every guest at the end of these conversations. Number one, books, which books are you recommending most or gifting most frequently to others these days?
[00:52:01] WS: These days.
[00:52:02] JR: Well, all time, these days, whenever.
[00:52:05] WS: I think of all time, perhaps Hinds' Feet on High Places.
[00:52:12] JR: Yeah, that’s been recommended a couple of times here.
[00:52:15] WS: Okay. It’s a wonderful, wonderful allegory. As I meet young women who struggle with fear that’s just a bomb of an allegory. Because of the season of life that I’m in, along with my peers, Praying the Scriptures For Your Teens by Jodie Berndt is a wonderful — if you’ve enjoyed like the Praying the Scripture style books, they have it for your children, for your adult children. But the one for your teens, that’s right where I’m living right now, so I like to give that to the people who are in the same life season with me.
But my favorite book that I read recently that I’ve gifted to so many people, like I’ll be talking with someone on the phone and say, “Have you read Becoming Mrs. Lewis yet?” And they’ll say, “No” and I’m like, “Read it right now.” It is my favorite book that I’ve read of the year.
[00:53:09] JR: That’s wow. I’m really surprised to hear that, because I saw that book coming. I was like, “This is either going to be great or terrible.”
[00:53:18] WS: Have you read it?
[00:53:19] JR: I have not.
[00:53:20] WS: I’ll send it in. Let me gift it to you.
[00:53:23] JR: Okay. Great. I don’t do fiction and I get that it’s rooted in — it’s sort of a fiction. I’m going to give something to you. Not a lot of people are talking about this book yet, but I think they will. Somebody finally wrote a parallel biography on C.S. Lewis and Dorothy Sayers, who is the great detective novelist back in Oxford in the 1950s. She and Jack were fairly close and it’s a short biography, but it’s really well done. It’s really well done. I think it’s called Dorothy and Jack so I’ll be sure to send you a copy.
[00:54:04] WS: Thank you. Well, one of the things that I love so much about Becoming Mrs. Lewis is, there’s so much poetry in it, and even the proses are poetic. I sat there with my underliner the whole time. I mean, my highlighter.
[00:54:18] JR: I love it. Who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith influences their work?
[00:54:25] WS: I was thinking knowing that this question was coming and I should have done some research. I had a couple thoughts. Have you had Cal Newport?
[00:54:35] JR: I haven’t and uh -- so Cal and I have exchanged a couple of emails and so I need to ask Cal to come on.
[00:54:43] WS: Is he a believer? He is, isn’t he?
[00:54:46] JR: I don’t know is the short answer to that. I suspect he is. All right last question. Once piece of advice to leave this audience with. Again, these are Jesus lovers who are like you are just trying to do great work at work and at home for God’s glory.
[00:55:02] WS: Yes, of course. Well, I think the best advice I can give is what I heard God give me. Pursue Christ, love others, hone your craft and I’ll bring those three things together.
[00:55:15] JR: That’s perfect. Hey Wendy, I want to commend you and everybody in our audience for the important redemptive work you’re doing every day. Thank you for reminding us of the importance of limiting distractions to hone our craft, but more importantly to listen to God’s voice. I think that’s a big part of this, and thank you for serving your readers well through the ministry of excellence. Hey guys, the book is The 40-Day Social Media Fast. You can find it wherever books are sold. If you want to connect with Wendy, you can do so at wendyspeake.com. Wendy, thank you so much for joining me.
[00:55:56] WS: Oh, it’s been my pleasure, and you know what I would love to hear —
[00:55:59] JR: Please?
[00:56:00] WS: — at some point in the future is someone say, “I came across that book on Jordan Raynor’s show and I used those 40 days to knock out the first draft of my manuscript.”
[00:56:12] JR: I love it. Yes! Let’s do it. I’d love to hear that. I’d love to hear that. Well, thanks again, Wendy.
[00:56:18] WS: Thank you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:56:19] JR: I hope you guys enjoyed that episode, especially those of you who are pursuing writing, the craft of writing, whether it’s screenplays or books, whatever.
Hey, if you enjoyed this episode of Call to Mastery, make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode in the future. If you’re already subscribed, do me a favor. Take 30 seconds right now and go leave a review of the podcast on Apple Podcast. Those reviews will really help us get this show into the ears of more listeners. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in this week. I’ll see you next time.
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