Silly songs with Larry and Sarah
How Sarah’s 190th TikTok video went viral and launched her career, how to experience “God loving you while you work,” and why she views her silly songs for 9-year-olds as holy work.
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[0:00:05.4] JR: Hey friend, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast, I’m Jordan Raynor. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians, those of us who aren’t pastors or religious professionals but who work as YouTubers, football coaches, and copywriters? That’s the question we explore every week and today, I’m posing it to Sarah Maddack. She’s a super popular YouTuber who specializes in writing silly songs for kids. Her videos have millions of views and streams on Spotify.
We recently sat down to discuss how her 190th TikTok video went viral and launched her career. We talked about how to experience God loving you while you work, and why Sarah views her silly songs for nine-year-olds as holy work. I think you’re going to love this fun conversation with my new friend, Sarah Maddack.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:03.9] JR: Hey Sarah, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast.
[0:01:06.3] SM: Thank you, very excited to be here.
[0:01:08.1] JR: Silly Song Artist, this is guaranteed to be a fun episode. What the heck does this mean? When you introduce yourself at church, at a bar as a silly song artist, what are the next three sentences to describe what you do?
[0:01:20.8] SM: So, I usually say, it’s like rapping a Dr. Seuss book. It’s just –
[0:01:27.8] JR: That’s gold.
[0:01:28.1] SM: Thanks, thanks. I mean, it’s just a good way to communicate it. Wholesome rapping. Dr. Seuss.
[0:01:34.0] JR: That’s all you need.
[0:01:34.6] SM: Yeah.
[0:01:35.2] JR: That’s the perfect description, you don’t need a second sentence. Who do you respect the most? Whose lyrics, whose raps are you like, studying the most, and deconstructing the most as you try to hone your craft?
[0:01:46.1] SM: I would say – it’s hard to pick one, but my biggest influences are just Silly Songs with Larry, growing up.
[0:01:50.8] JR: Yes.
[0:01:52.5] SM: You know, that’s what planted the seed in my brain.
[0:01:54.5] JR: Seriously.
[0:01:55.1] SM: And I just – I don't know if you saw this, I just got to collaborate with Mike Nawrocki, who is the voice of Larry, and who wrote those songs.
[0:02:03.3] JR: Shut up. Okay, hold the phone, this is amazing, this was not my briefing, shame on you producers. What was this collaboration?
[0:02:10.6] SM: So, I actually know a woman named Mary, who goes to church with him. She has an agency that connects influencers with promoting different shows in movies. Mike has a new animated series called, The Dead Sea Squirrels. So yeah, it’s great, it’s like about these squirrels that witness things of Jesus, but then they were frozen, so their current day, and they can tell about what they saw.
It’s amazing, but she was like, “This just is a perfect collaboration, we need to have you, you know, do a rap with him about endorsing the show, you know?” So – and he’s a Lipscomb, which is the university –
[0:02:44.4] JR: Yeah-yeah-yeah.
[0:02:45.3] SM: 20 minutes from me.
[0:02:46.0] JR: Yeah, I was just speaking to Liz. I didn’t know he was at Lipscomb.
[0:02:48.1] SM: Oh yeah. Yeah, he’s a professor, he teaches like, voice act, or voice over and creative work and stuff like that.
[0:02:53.9] JR: What else would he be teaching? That’s –
[0:02:55.9] SM: I know.
[0:02:57.5] JR: Amazing. All right, well, hey producers, let’s find a link to this and make sure it’s in the show notes because I selfishly want to listen to this. Are you a Lin-Manuel Miranda fan?
[0:03:08.9] SM: You know what? I think he’s so talented, I know the right answer is, “Oh, he’s amazing.”
[0:03:14.4] JR: Sure, no, I like the nuanced answer.
[0:03:16.0] SM: I listen to him all the time.
[0:03:15.9] JR: Give me the nuance, give me the nuance.
[0:03:17.3] SM: I think he’s so talented and I – people compare my style to him a lot.
[0:03:21.2] JR: Yeah.
[0:03:21.1] SM: Because it’s a lot of storytelling –
[0:03:21.8] JR: That’s why I asked, yeah.
[0:03:23.3] SM: And all that, and I’m so honored, I will say, to be compared to him. But I told Nathan the other day, I saw Wicked, and I’ve seen Hamilton too, and there were things I appreciated about both of them, but I told Nathan, “I think I’ve discovered – I see myself as I’m the kind of person who I should like musical theatre, but I think I’m just not actually.” I was even in musical theatre in high school, but I think I actually just don’t like it that much.
[0:03:48.9] JR: Just not a musical person, that’s fair.
[0:03:51.1] SM: Yeah, I don't know.
[0:03:52.6] JR: I was in musical theatre in high school, what were you in?
[0:03:55.3] SM: What was I in? Will Rogers Follies, I couldn’t even tell you what that’s about.
[0:03:58.8] JR: I was going to say, this is not a musical.
[0:03:59.7] SM: It’s about Will Rogers.
[0:04:01.3] JR: This is why you don’t like musicals, you haven’t seen any real musicals.
[0:04:04.1] SM: Oh, I was in Les Mis, as a –
[0:04:06.3] JR: Oh, that’s legit.
[0:04:06.5] SM: A beggar/poor person.
[0:04:08.6] JR: That’s legit.
[0:04:09.5] SM: It’s a huge role.
[0:04:10.0] JR: Huge role, beggar number three.
[0:04:12.0] SM: Yeah-yeah. So, those are the two I can remember.
[0:04:15.6] JR: I think Lin’s – this is up for debate, either he or Aron Sorkin of the West Wing are the most talented writers alive in my opinion, but like, it’s an acquired taste. Like, there’s a reason why the two of them love each other so much, think very fast, not everybody loves it. My friend, Christie Adams, who is listening right now, hates Aron Sorkin and Lin Manuel Miranda and it is only by the grace of God that we are still friends. All right.
[0:04:38.8] SM: That’s hilarious.
[0:04:39.6] JR: Let’s get back to Sarah Maddack. So, your career took off because you were rapping about a slug.
[0:04:44.3] SM: Yes.
[0:04:44.9] JR: Please tell us more, what’s the story here?
[0:04:46.5] SM: Sure, sure. I literally have a little slug, like a plastic slug here on my window seal.
[0:04:52.9] JR: That looks very real.
[0:04:53.8] SM: It’s a visual aid. It does look – it actually kind of grosses me out sometimes, it looks too real. But yeah, it was COVID, I was not leaving my house, basically, for a month. It was whenever one was freaking out, and I had been scrolling on TikTok for months, you know, just getting sucked in, and I kept thinking, “I can do something like this. Like, this is just so, my personality.”
I’m such a natural like entertainer, performer, just a humorous person, whatever, and I just started making TikToks for fun and they weren’t even silly songs. They were just random goofy things, but then in April, found a slug on my rug, and my first thought was just, “How did that get in here, it needs to get out, you know?” And I was going to throw it away, then I was like, “This would be a great song.”
So, I literally stopped right then and I just wrote the song, it just kind of flowed out of me, 30 minutes, and then I did like seven takes, like getting on the ground with it and doing a little beat.
[0:05:52.7] JR: With the same slug or did you have to use a prop?
[0:05:55.2] SM: Oh, it’s the same slug.
[0:05:55.8] JR: He stayed.
[0:05:57.0] SM: Yeah, he was there.
[0:05:57.0] JR: The benefit of slugs being slow. I mean, once you rhyme slug with rug, that’s a heavy pitch, like, you got to pick it, you got to – you got to chase that down. All right, had you written silly songs before? Was this the first one? Yeah, tell us about this.
[0:06:11.2] SM: Yeah. So, I actually grew up writing goofy poems, similar to Shel Silverstein. There’s someone I really respect. He wrote those poetry books, like Where the Sidewalk Ends and all that stuff, and we grew up reading those. So, I’d actually write poems, I even entered like, my libraries contest, writing the songs about how I wish we had a maid so I didn’t have to do chores, and it won first place.
[0:06:31.7] JR: Jeez.
[0:06:33.8] SM: No big deal.
[0:06:34.3] JR: Jeez.
[0:06:36.7] SM: So, it just started out with silly poems, but then actually, in college, my main thing that I was passionate about was I did an internship called Southwestern Advantage where you sell books door to door during the summer, for 80 hours a week.
[0:06:49.3] JR: Like kid’s books?
[0:06:50.6] SM: Yes. Kids books and books to help with homework and ACT, SAT prep, but the main purpose of the program is to build skills and character, make money to pay for school. You know, it’s just very difficult, it’s just like, really –
[0:07:02.6] JR: Yeah, oh yeah.
[0:07:03.6] SM: Challenging, and I was attracted to that, but I did that and we would have these sales conventions every year, and they had a video contest where you could make some kind of parody video or a song, or a skit, whatever, and that’s when I started writing silly songs, but they were about a very specific thing: Selling books door to door, but I mean, that –
[0:07:26.5] JR: Hyper niche.
[0:07:27.5] SM: Yes, very, very much so, but that’s when I just came alive. It’s such a specific random thing, but I like, stayed up ‘till two AM, editing it, and I’m just having so – I just had so much fun with it. I loved directing all my friends, “And okay, you go over there,” and blah-blah-blah, I had like a camcorder for one of them. So yeah, I just loved doing that, and here’s something so weird, I’m going to tell this story that I almost never tell, but it circles back to Lin-Manuel Miranda.
[0:07:55.5] JR: This is good. All things do.
[0:07:57.5] SM: Yeah. So, in 2019, I had, at that point, made like, maybe three or four silly songs and videos, but they were about the internship. I’m on my way to Hamilton with my mom, and I say, “Mom, this is going to sound so crazy, but I actually think I’m going to be famous one day.” And famous is you know, currently in like lower case “F” famous, like, come on. But I did say “Famous.”
And I said, “I think it’s going to be for silly songs and videos, kind of like the book videos I did but about other random things, like Weird Al Yankovic style.” But I hadn’t even done anything like that yet. Then I forgot I ever said that, and just didn’t even think about that until a year later when I found the slug on the rug, and it just blew up. It’s like –
[0:08:43.2] JR: I read somewhere that you had written like a hundred and ninety songs, before the slugs. Is this true?
[0:08:50.5] SM: Here’s the interesting thing, I know exactly what you were talking about, I probably had written maybe at that point, maybe a hundred. I was talking about, “I posted a hundred and ninety videos to TikTok before I posted the slug song.”
[0:09:02.5] JR: Interesting.
[0:09:02.7] SM: But those videos were not songs.
[0:09:05.3] JR: Yeah, so what were they? It was just random videos?
[0:09:05.2] SM: So, that’s how many videos I had made. If you go back and look, like, don’t even look.
[0:09:09.9] JR: Don’t look,
[0:09:10.0] SM: They’re fine. They’re fine.
[0:09:09.8] JR: You should probably delete them all.
[0:09:12.0] SM: Yeah, I know. They’re just like, they’re just a typical TikTok, but they’re goofy. They’re still on brand, you know?
[0:09:20.1] JR: Yeah.
[0:09:20.1] SM: They’re still, just family-friendly humorous, but –
[0:09:23.1] JR: I think all content creators should like – like, I would subscribe to an app that automatically deletes any content I publish more than five years ago. Like, I will always going to be embarrassed.
[0:09:33.4] SM: Yeah.
[0:09:33.5] JR: Which is good, like, that means you're learning and you're getting better at the craft. All right, you posted a hundred and ninety videos, video number 191 tips, it goes crazy viral, right? But when you’re at, like video 189, if I’m you, I’m like, “Why am I doing this?” Like, this is – this is the epitome of silly, even if it’s not a silly video. Like, what – how did you discern whether to pivot or persevere away from like creating all of this? Like, why did you keep going?
[0:10:03.5] SM: Yeah. So, that is such a good question and I’m going to turn it on its head.
[0:10:07.3] JR: Great.
[0:10:07.8] SM: I was not trying to make this a career at all.
[0:10:10.9] JR: This is all play?
[0:10:13.2] SM: This was completely play. Creative outlet, just having so much fun, just amusing myself, I saw it like a game, and so I didn’t even – I didn’t even know I posted a hundred ninety at the time.
[0:10:24.5] JR: You weren’t setting goals, you weren’t – you didn’t have a streak that you were counting, you were just playing?
[0:10:31.0] SM: Play, total play, yeah.
[0:10:33.9] JR: But then it becomes the thing, right? Talk us through that because I mean, now, you’re – I’m assuming, earning an income, turning this into a business. Talk through that journey real quickly, like, how did you go from a slug on a rug to building a business around these silly songs?
[0:10:48.0] SM: Yeah, so once it took off, I was just like, so amazed and delighted and just – it’s – there’s nothing like having done something for years that you’re passionate about, for years, just out of pure enjoyment or just feeling called to it, and then you get affirmation on it. External validation, but it takes that time, like that first time, just follow what you feel called to, but yeah, that was amazing.
I – and then, I just started making like a silly song almost every day, just like a little 30-second thing, and all I did pretty much was make a little beat with my fist, you know? And by May – April, May, literally a month later, I – well, I should preface, I was advised to make a business email and put it in my bio. A month later, a brand reaches out, a vitamin brand. “Hey, how much would you charge to write a song for us and put it on your platform?”
Totally new to me. However, I was not new to sales. I’m comfortable with marketing sales because I did that for five years. I had a sales job at the time, but that was a funny thing to be like, “How on – how much do I charge?”
[0:11:54.5] JR: Yeah, right-right-right, no idea.
[0:11:55.3] SM: This company, you know?
[0:11:56.2] JR: Yeah.
[0:11:56.7] SM: So, I had to get through that but they just started coming into my business email, was brands. Brands and then people asking for custom raps.
[0:12:06.4] JR: That’s funny. For like, birthdays or whatever?
[0:12:09.4] SM: Yes. So, I called that my gift-rapping business.
[0:12:13.7] JR: That’s amazing.
[0:12:15.0] SM: Yeah.
[0:12:15.7] JR: That’s amazing, and that was it?
[0:12:17.8] SM: Yeah. Well, I replaced my income by July.
[0:12:20.8] JR: Yeah.
[0:12:21.3] SM: And quit my job by September.
[0:12:23.7] JR: Yeah, and this is what year? This is 2020, you’re five years in, be honest, does this still feel like play?
[0:12:33.0] SM: You know what? It doesn’t feel like play as much as it did at the beginning. It definitely does a lot of times, and you know what? I just went for a walk before this, a long walk, and this doesn’t happen as frequently anymore, it used to, all the time, but I was so grateful. It’s probably because I got eight hours of sleep last night, I wrote a whole song in 36 minutes. Like, the whole thing, and I was just flowing and I love it and it wasn’t difficult at all.
It was so fun, I just wanted to keep doing it for fun. There’s a lot of play in it but it’s harder now because like, this is my job now. I have to do it, and I’m actually the only one working between us two, currently, just with the baby and everything, that’s what we’re doing. But yeah, it’s amazing, it’s fulfilling, it’s rewarding, but it’s not as playful all the time, I should say. There’s more admin, taxes –
[0:13:26.8] JR: Exactly, right, that’s a thing, that’s a thing.
[0:13:27.2] SM: Doing taxes this week, that’s not fun.
[0:13:29.7] JR: I love what I get to do and I recognize that that is a gift of grace from God. Like, there is – most people on earth get zero days where they wake up and like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to get to work.” Like, you and I have been gifted this thing. I hate that advice that I used to get, especially when I was in college of like, “Find the thing you love and you’ll never work a day in your life.” It’s like, whoever said that, like, did not Genesis three, right?
Like, work is still hard. Like, even when it’s great, even when you love the thing, like, it’s still hard, right? And so, talk about that for a minute, right? Like, you found something that you really love to do that is play most of the time, but there are some days that are hard. What do your prayers look like during those days and how does your faith help you push through that and just do the work and you know, push through it for God’s glory? What does that look like?
[0:14:20.5] SM: Yeah. The hard – some of the hardest parts are comparing myself to other content creators. I’m like, how – you know, when I started out, I was single, it was COVID, I had all the time in the world to make videos. Now, I’m married, have a baby, and I just am wearing more hats as I edit, produce, you know, do all these things. But yeah, a lot of prayers are just, “God, help me to be creative.” Because I'm just – sometimes it’s just not there.
Sometimes it feels like trudging onward. “Help me be creative or/and help me not compare myself to other people,” where I’m like, “How are they producing so much content?” And one of the hardest things for me is I have such an ideation creative brain — musical brain. Oh, my goodness, the thorn in my flesh is technology, admin, taxes, and I handle all of that, you know? So, those are the things that make me cry, they literally make me cry, you know? Because I feel stupid. I don’t believe I’m stupid but that’s like the lie that the enemy tells me, so.
[0:15:20.2] JR: Let’s talk about comparison. I want to dig into this because I think I know I could relate to this. I think anyone even if they’re not a content creator can relate to this in their work. How does your faith give you unique resources to deal with that temptation to compare yourself to the work of others? Like, how do you think about this through a biblical lens?
[0:15:39.5] SM: Yeah, I mean, God orders my footsteps. He doesn’t order them on the same footsteps as somebody else. It’s just like, it’s really hard. I’ll be honest, I don’t know that I have a great answer for that right now because I think I’m in right in the middle of it, and just still figuring it out. I think I need a better biblical worldview because it’s weird though. I often compare myself to people who are doing lifestyle content.
Maybe typical, when you think of it, an influencer, you know? And their life looks more glamorous and beautiful and things like that, and I’m like, “That’s not actually what I’m doing.” So, I need to remember to stay in my quirky, “I’m making songs largely for nine-year-old girls” lane, you know?
[0:16:23.0] JR: I’m on the rug with a slug, my life, trust me, is not that glamorous. No, I think that’s good, like I had another Christian author, a friend of mine on the podcast once. His name is Carey Nieuwhof and we were talking about this, like, and we were just admitting to each other that we compare each other to each other, right? Like, we’re constantly comparing our bestseller rankings or whatever.
[0:16:42.8] SM: Oh, that’s so funny.
[0:16:43.4] JR: And yeah, a really helpful question for me is like, “Am I even playing the same game as this person?” Because like, a lot of times, I’ll be comparing myself to somebody who is doing something totally different than me. I’m like, “That’s just illogical to compare that,” and then, I always come back to the parable of the talents, right? Like, the master, Jesus says, gives one guy five bags of gold of steward, the other guy, two, the other guy, one.
And the five-talent and the two-talent servant get the exact same blessing. “Well done, good and faithful servant, come enjoy the master’s happiness.” Even though at the end of the day, the guy with five had 10 and the guy with two had four. Clearly, the guy with five, in the world’s eyes was “the winner” right? But like, the blessing was exactly the same. Like, I don’t think God calls us to win.
I think He calls us to steward whatever He’s putting our hands, and that’s what we measure. It’s not me versus that guy, it’s me versus what God has put on my hand. Did I make more of that thing, and if so, I’ve won, does that make any sense or am I just talking nonsense?
[0:17:47.6] SM: Yes. No, that totally makes sense. No, of course, it does not say in the Bible, “He who is first will be first and he who is last will be last.”
[0:17:56.0] JR: That’s right.
[0:17:56.4] SM: You better get to work.
[0:17:57.9] JR: That’s right.
[0:17:58.6] SM: Beat everybody.
[0:17:59.3] JR: That’s right. Hey, you were really kind to read and endorse my new book, Five Mere Christians, and I hope you don’t hate me for reading your own words back to you, but this is leading to a question. Here’s what you said, part of what you said. You said, “The stories in this book are bound to lift a heavy weight off the shoulders of passionate Jesus followers, who have felt their work-life is inferior without an official ministry title.”
Here’s why I wanted to read that, you write silly songs for a living. I got to imagine you struggled with this idea that this creative “Secular” work is not as spiritual or eternally significant as that of your pastor. How have you come to see your work as a calling or is this, this ongoing battle for you internally?
[0:18:45.6] SM: Yeah. I mean, yeah, for a while it can seem trivial. You know, it can seem, “Well, why would you do this? You’re a waste of time.” Or honestly, there are just a lot of stereotypes put on influencers. Influencers are vapid, they’re greedy, they’re chasing money, they’re vain, and guess what? I probably struggle with a lot of those things to some degree. You know, I’m human, that could be a struggle, but I have gotten so many beautiful DMs from people who listen to my songs.
I’ll literally read you one, I was reviewing it before our podcast. So, there was a woman who reached out and said, “Hey Sarah, we have a nearly 10-year-old ADHD boy who recently discovered your other songs, In A Coffee Shop, and it changed the atmosphere in our house. He struggles to regulate his emotions and instead of getting angry, he puts your songs on and dances to it. They’re absolutely brilliant and a great source of energy. So, thank you so much.”
Then they sent me videos of him singing my songs, reacting to them, and I cannot believe that I get to help a 10-year-old boy regulate his emotions, to change the atmosphere of their house, to even just play a small part in that, and I just – especially recently, I’ve actually gotten lots more DMs from moms talking about their kids, and just, “Thank you for making clean, wholesome content the whole family can get around, can enjoy together, can bond together.”
So, I’m just seeing a lot of – what feels like holy fruit that comes from it, especially more in the last two years as I’ve grown, and it makes it now, I really embrace it. It makes it really easy to embrace, but it is holy work, and that’s just one part of it. I mean, a huge part of it is protecting the innocence of kids. This is the – something I’m so passionate about and always have been. I think I’m just so horrified by any time I hear about evil and children being together.
Like, you know, I don’t have to get into it, but when I just hear about kids being hurt, kids being in harm’s way, let’s just say, or, oh, kids being exposed to stuff early that they should never be exposed to, you know? Like, I could cry talking about it, and I know it will – oh, silly songs will just solve the world’s evils. No, but I’m fighting that. I am giving them something shining, trying to shine a light in the darkness of the Internet, you know?
Giving them something to delight in and just some silly song about a worm, like how sweet, how childlike is that? When I was researching my YouTube audience specifically, realizing it’s a lot of nine-year-old girls, girls, and boys, but mostly girls I would say when nine years old is so often the year before you – someone shows you something that they shouldn’t. It’s the year before you go through puberty.
You are facing a lot of temptation about things, you know, that are so challenging and difficult, you just – there is like a loss of innocence after nine years old, and I’m just like, “Oh, I just want kids to be kids as long as possible, and you know, comfortable being silly and being playful,” and I just know that brings glory to God and His joy, like true to the spirit joy.
[0:21:51.7] JR: One hundred percent, and as a father of a 10-year-old and eight-year-old girl, who loves your stuff, I’m so grateful for what you’re doing. Your work reminds me so much of the work of Mr. Rogers, of Fred Rogers, whose story I shared in Five Mere Christians. Fred was the first person – he might be the only one I got to fact-check this, ever ordained by the Presbyterian Church to do ministry on television.
And there was this guy named Bill Barker, who was a friend of Rogers who gave the ordination, a speech ceremony, and he said, “We charge you to shake us through a God who involves himself in our world into the world where He already is, the world of TV cameras, of puppets, of children, of parents, of studios, of directors, of actors. This too is God’s world.” I think the same could be said of releasing Silly Songs on YouTube 30, 40 years later, amen.
[0:22:57.1] SM: Amen.
[0:22:57.7] JR: There’s a story I love for the book where Fred is at church with a friend, and he looks over, and the pastor’s like 80 years old, and he’s giving this sermon. Now, Fred Rogers never spoke like a negative word against anybody except this guy. He’s like, “This is the worst sermon I’ve ever heard in my entire life.” And he looks over to the side, to his friend who’s with him, and the friend is like weeping, like uncontrollably.
And later, he realized, he said that the Holy Spirit was able to translate the words of that tiny feeble sermon, poorly crafted sermon, to speak to the needs of my friend. He said that experience changed his life because he recognized that that space between the television camera and the viewer, for you, the YouTube screen and your viewer, is holy ground, and the Holy Spirit can do amazing things beyond what we can comprehend in that holy space.
And so, you don’t have to be terribly direct about your faith. You can just plant seeds of joy, right? And people can get an aroma of Christ in His joy through a ridiculous song about a slug, and that sounds crazy, but I think you’re starting to see some of the fruit of that, right?
[0:24:13.1] SM: Yes, yes, and I get messages where people are like, “I could totally tell you’re a believer,” or, “I was so happy when I saw you know, you post this thing that confirmed it,” or, “I thought you were a believer, I can just tell.” Like, people literally say basically what you said, which is amazing. I hope they say it forever, I hope I embody that forever, and to bless of the Holy Spirit in that way.
Yeah, I just want to live life in a way that people are attracted that there is something deeper I’m living for, there is something unshakable about me, which is God. Nothing about me but God who lives in me, and yeah, of course, I want people to see that.
[0:24:49.6] JR: Yeah, happiness can be maybe one of the most powerful tools we ever dispose of for evangelism to the watching world. You are not preaching on the YouTube channel and nor do I think you should necessarily, right? But you are planting a seed of joy in people’s hearts. That can only be found ultimately in Christ. All right, we’ve been talking about how your faith is influencing what you do, right? The God-given dignity of creative work like this.
I am curious how your faith is shaping how you do the work. We touched on that a little bit with comparison, how else is your faith really guiding how you’re going about building this business around these Silly Songs, Sarah?
[0:25:27.0] SM: I mean, like you were saying what are some frequent prayers, I ask God to give me songs, “God, please give me this song. Please help this song to bless people.” Sometimes I’ll still do those gift raps I was talking about and man, those are so fun. Like, “God help these words to bless whoever.” You know, I’m just rapping them about because the content of rapping something encouraging, and that’s powerful.
You know, another thing is thankfully we’re at a point where like I bear consistent income, that was not the case most of these five years, where every month, “Hey, God, could you please send me a brand deal? That would be great.” I don’t know where the next chunk is coming from, I didn’t have any passive income, you know, at that time. That was crazy, just an entrepreneurial work like that when you are starting out to see God show up and provide, you know, that’s crazy.
We’re like living paycheck to paycheck, my husband and I when we first got married, and we were praying big prayers to be able to buy a house because we wanted to start having kids, and then I had a song go so viral, The Coffee Shop Song, I hopped into a coffee shop, and that song is the only reason we could buy a house a year later. When we were under contract for that house, that also the house is like a whole God story.
I cannot believe how it happened but when we were under contract for the house, I was pregnant and didn’t know it, and we were going from – albeit, we would have been fine, but a very tiny old apartment, one bedroom, where we kind of smelled weed every day. You know, like not the greatest area. You don’t feel great about bringing your first baby there, to a house with a nursery, and a fenced-in backyard.
Like, it was totally – just, oh, just a wonderful place to bring your first kid into the world. So, yeah, just the way our finances has worked too has been a huge wow. I just created a big prayer and God just showed up, God provided what we needed.
[0:27:19.0] JR: Talk about the spiritual blessings though of that level of dependence because a lot of people hear this who are not entrepreneurial, and like, “Oh my gosh, this sounds so risky,” right? Like, I can’t imagine doing that, and listen, they’re the sane ones. We are the insane ones, right?
[0:27:32.8] SM: Right.
[0:27:33.3] JR: But talk about the spiritual benefits of that amount of risk because that does force you to your knees, right?
[0:27:39.7] SM: Yeah. I see this fun, personally.
[0:27:42.9] JR: Yeah, I do too, but we’re crazy for that.
[0:27:44.9] SM: Yeah, I just think it’s fun. I mean, I just – it’s just amazing because it just – it does leave you dependent on God. If you live a completely comfortable life, you never need to be vulnerable before God, and say, “Hey, God, I really need you right now.” That’s the temptation of anyone who – I shouldn’t say anyone, lots of people, who especially live in America, just we’re a first-world country, you know?
Where you’re pretty much doing fine most of the time, but yeah, it’s – yeah, I think those are beautiful seasons of life, like just being able to – I will never forget, you know, praying about something and then the next day, getting something, and burst through the bedroom like, “Babe, you will not believe this email I just got.” And it’s like, sometimes like almost like an exact number of what we were praying for, and I see it as a spiritual blessing.
[0:28:33.9] JR: I couldn’t agree more. So, one of the things I really wrestle with as a content creator, I would argue it’s tough to do this work and be a really emotional person, right? Because it becomes really easy, at least I’m speaking from personal experience here, for my mood to be pretty well correlated with how well the latest work was received. Do you struggle with this?
[0:29:00.9] SM: Yes, oh, yes.
[0:29:03.6] JR: Okay, give me answers.
[0:29:04.4] SM: Oh, that’s why it’s hard when it feels like you’re trudging to create something, man, that’s hard because I feel like that’s going to show through the camera, you know? Like that people are going to feel that, but what’s helpful to me is when I knowing – just moving my body in the morning is huge for me before I’m going to film something or before I do a podcast, you know?
So, walking, praying, just getting your mind right before the Lord helps you get your mind right before your audience.
[0:29:31.7] JR: Yeah, I do think that’s the key, right? Like, it is immersing ourselves in God’s word, immersing ourselves in prayer, and reminding us of what our Heavenly Father says about us because if we’re doing that first, yeah, at least in my experience, I find it a lot harder to care about what other people say if the God of the universe, if I see the God of the universe looking at me, and saying because I am in Christ, “Jordan is my son.” Co-heir with Christ in whom God is well-pleased. That changed your perspective.
[0:30:04.3] SM: Yes.
[0:30:05.3] JR: Quite a bit.
[0:30:06.0] SM: Yes, and I get a lot of hate comments, and that’s not, “Oh, poor me, I get hate comments for my wonderful flexible job God has given me.” But man, I always said I feel like it’s such a kindness that I have really never been bothered by them very much. I think that’s just the Holy Spirit helping me know that people say cringe, embarrassing, cringe, you know, whatever, that we’re called to be set apart that I knew this would happen.
Also, the world is going to hate you, you know, if you are following Christ or being joyful, being silly, just not taking yourself too seriously. So, yeah, I’m just so grateful that, like, the Holy Spirit protects me from the arrows of hate comments that are thrown at me because words can be, you know, words can hurt but –
[0:30:55.1] JR: That is so rare, like clearly, it’s the Lord’s work. Is there a spiritual discipline that you are or a physical discipline, anything that you think God works through to give you that thick skin?
[0:31:06.1] SM: I don’t know. I don’t know how exactly I would answer that. I feel like He’s just made me this way. I feel like – well, here’s the thing, when you read comments like that I always tell myself it’s probably a troubled teen. It’s probably someone who is very unhappy, it’s probably someone who really needs prayer and compassion, and to be given the benefit of the doubt, and I have hoped in God’s redemption so, so deeply.
There are probably a lot of those people if they leave a particularly nasty comment. Five years from now they might go back and look at that and feel ashamed of it, and be like, “What was I thinking? Why was I the kind of person who try to bring people down for no reason?” So, I just feel like, yeah, a lot of those people are really hurting, and a lot of them will be redeemed because that’s what God does.
[0:31:54.6] JR: Yeah. Do you pray for the haters?
[0:31:56.6] SM: I have prayed for the haters, yes.
[0:31:58.4] JR: Yeah, yeah.
[0:31:59.5] SM: But I often just don’t even read the hate comments.
[0:32:01.5] JR: Yeah, I was going to say.
[0:32:02.3] SM: I don’t need to read that.
[0:32:02.9] JR: I was going to say, I was going to say hide the hate mail.
[0:32:06.0] SM: “God, please bless User001 Mean Kat, please bless.” You know, like, not every single comment.
[0:32:12.9] JR: My assistant, Kayla, knows that I make it a Harry Potter reference in a devotional email to get the hate eraser out, and delete all the hate mail so I don’t see it. We might have been SOP somewhere about what to do when Jordan makes a Harry Potter reference in a devotional to protect me from the hate, but no, but I love – but I love that of praying for the haters, knowing that God wants to and can redeem that, and it – were it not for God’s grace, we would be that same hater.
[0:32:44.2] SM: Oh, yeah.
[0:32:45.1] JR: Yeah. Sarah –
[0:32:46.2] SM: And I am, in other parts of my life.
[0:32:47.5] JR: Yo, yeah, a hundred percent.
[0:32:48.6] SM: You know? I just don’t leave comments on people’s videos.
[0:32:52.8] JR: That’s exactly right. Hey, Sarah, this has been super fun. We wrap up every episode with the same four questions. Number one, we’re talking about my picture book, The Royal in You, before we started recording, all about this idea of working with King Jesus, free from the curse of sin, on the new earth. What job would you love to do on the new earth? Do you want to keep writing silly songs?
[0:33:14.6] SM: I would love that, but what I would absolutely love is to be – it’ll probably be a worship leader, but to be able to sing so amazingly beautifully. Like, I can sing, I can sing well enough to do silly songs, but man, you know when people are just belting it out and doing a million runs, like gospel singers, and you just – you're whole body is like affected by it. It is – it’s like a holy moment.
I, oh, I wish I could sing like that. I was in the car the other day and this is so silly. It was the Ariana Grande cover of Zero to Hero from Hercules, which if you ever heard that song, that sounds like, “Bless my soul, Herc was on a roll.” It’s the most hype, amazing song.
[0:34:01.6] JR: I did not know this existed.
[0:34:03.4] SM: Oh, it’s so good.
[0:34:04.5] JR: Oh, I can’t wait to find this.
[0:34:06.0] SM: And I bawled my eyes out, and Nathan, my husband is just laughing at me. I mean, I could not control it, just because of her vocal ability.
[0:34:13.4] JR: Oh, yeah.
[0:34:14.1] SM: So, anyway, I just think that when people can belt and sing like that, it is so heavenly, and I would love to be it. I believe I will be able to do that in heaven.
[0:34:21.7] JR: That’s great, I love that. Hercules is an underrated soundtrack.
[0:34:26.2] SM: I agree.
[0:34:26.4] JR: Can we get on the same page there? I mean, Meg’s song. By the way, this is like a stage musical now.
[0:34:32.1] SM: Oh. Maybe I’d like that musical.
[0:34:34.0] JR: Maybe you would, maybe you’ll finally find a musical you like, or I don’t know, maybe we could write a musical together on the new earth. That’s sounds fun.
[0:34:40.9] SM: There you go.
[0:34:41.0] JR: That sounds fun.
[0:34:41.5] SM: There you go.
[0:34:42.3] JR: All right. Sarah, if we open up your Amazon order history, which books would we find you buying over and over again to give away to friends?
[0:34:49.7] SM: Obviously, only your book.
[0:34:51.7] JR: Of course, duh, that’s why this – the only reason why we ask this question.
[0:34:52.1] SM: They’re the only books I – I was kidding. Well, I do, especially love Redeeming Your Time, that’s a great book, but man, Brant Hansen. Have you ever read his books?
[0:35:02.6] JR: Yes, yes.
[0:35:04.2] SM: Oh, my goodness, I love his books. Ironically, I’ve read every single one of his books, except his most popular one. People usually think about Unoffendable, the one about anger.
[0:35:15.5] JR: Yeah-yeah-yeah.
[0:35:16.3] SM: I didn’t read that, but I’ve read, Blessed are the Misfits, The Men We Need, Ironically, a book made for men but I just – I’m just – was inspired by his vision for what God wants men to be. Life is Hard, God is Good, Let’s Dance. That one’s about joy.
[0:35:30.6] JR: Yeah-yeah-yeah.
[0:35:31.3] SM: Man, I read that book and I’m like, “See, I don’t have to write this book because he already wrote it.” You know? He’s –
[0:35:38.0] JR: Yeah, you read my mail.
[0:35:38.3] SM: I just resonate with him on a lot of things, yeah.
[0:35:40.8] JR: Yeah.
[0:35:41.3] SM: Yeah.
[0:35:41.7] JR: That’s good.
[0:35:42.2] SM: Brant Hansen. Oh, so good.
[0:35:44.4] JR: Okay, I like that. Hey, who would you want to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith shapes the work they do in the world, other than Brant Hansen?
[0:35:54.0] SM: Yeah. I have a friend named Street Hymns, well, his name is Mitchell but he goes by Street Hymns.
[0:35:59.7] JR: No, it’s not – No it’s not. Street Hymns now, that’s an amazing name.
[0:36:04.0] SM: Yeah, I know. He’s a battle rapper, spoken word and battle rapping, and correct me if I’m wrong, Internet, but I think he has a theology degree. I mean, he’s a very devoted follower of Jesus and just a very – just a very interesting, bold, humorous person, so crazy talented at what he does, but yeah, Street Hymns.
[0:36:26.5] JR: I love that. Okay.
[0:36:27.9] SM: He is unbelievable, yeah.
[0:36:29.6] JR: I wrote it down, I’m going to look him up. All right, Sarah, you’re talking to this global audience of Mere Christians who are doing a bunch of different things vocationally, what they share is a desire to glorify God in how they work. What’s one final thing you want to say or reiterate to our listeners before we sign off?
[0:36:48.3] SM: One final thing I’d like to say is work isn’t just about you bringing glory to God, it’s about God loving you through work, and there are so many moments of holy delight available for you if you look for them. Like moments with a coworker, give a compliment to a stranger, you know, wherever you work, if you work with people. You have so many opportunities to bless people and be blessed that might not have anything to do with your work. So, look for those because they’re available to you like little gifts God gives you throughout the day.
[0:37:23.5] JR: It’s really good. I love the way you articulated that. Work is an opportunity for God to love you through the work. Give one example of that from your own life?
[0:37:33.9] SM: Yeah. I would say, I’m really blessed that when you’re an entrepreneur you get to have a flexible schedule, and it’s just so wonderful to be able to spend time with friends between a nine-to-five workday, that means I could spend time with my friends who are moms, you know? Or stay-at-home moms and that’s a huge blessing to me. That’s when I’m technically not working.
But the flexible schedule allows me to be loved by my friends because I can actually go see them, which is huge. I mean, anybody, if you eat lunch, you’re the kind of person who eats lunch, even on your –
[0:38:05.8] JR: If lunch is a thing for you if you subscribe to this idea of lunch.
[0:38:09.9] SM: Yeah, just even on your lunch break. Like, “Oh, I’m going to go outside and I’m going to observe the birds.” Like I was on my walk today, and just – the birds were so loud and awesome and I just thank God for them, and I just think that’s childlike. Just take notice of His creation, wherever you work, even if it’s in a little cubicle because God is in everything.
[0:38:32.2] JR: That’s good. That’s good. Sarah, I want to commend you for the exceptional work you were doing for the glory of God and the good of others, for taking the time to experience God’s love as you work, and for reminding us that God delights in all work done with excellence and love and accordance of His commands and with joy, right? Exuberant joy that testifies to the joy that we have ultimately in Christ.
Sarah, where’s the best place for people to follow you? Is it YouTube, is it Spotify, is TikTok, is it all the places? Tell us.
[0:39:03.2] SM: It’s all the places. What it’s not is a website. I have never had a website.
[0:39:10.6] JR: I love it. Why would you?
[0:39:12.3] SM: Anyway. Yeah, I guess I just – I’ll figure it out someday, that’s the whole admin technology that makes me cry, yeah, of course, is what’s it. You can follow me, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Spotify, it’s all Sarah Maddack. Sarah with an H, M-A-D-D-A-C-K.
[0:39:28.7] JR: I love it. Sarah, thanks for hanging out with us today.
[0:39:31.5] SM: Yeah, thanks for having me, this is great.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:39:34.4] JR: My kids love watching Sarah’s videos, and I’m so glad she was able to join us here on the Mere Christians Podcast. Hey, as I mentioned in the interview, Sarah’s work reminds me so much of Fred Rogers, who embraced his role as a children’s TV host, as the place where he represented God in the world. In fact, one minister who understood that Fred was also a part of God’s royal priesthood, see I Peter II, once gave him this gift, this beautiful gift of a black and blue tartan patterned tie, traditionally worn by Presbyterian clergy.
Fred loved it so much that he frequently wore it on air to “Give a subliminal message.” That he was ministering on air even when he wasn’t speaking Jesus’ name, much like Sarah in today’s episode. Fred loved the symbol so much that he actually asked to be buried in the tie when he died. Hey, I wrote my new book, Five Mere Christians, to give you five real-life examples, including out of Fred Rogers, to show you that you too are a part of the royal priesthood, uniquely positioned to reflect God in your workplace.
To learn more, and see the other four men and women I’ve featured in the book, visit FiveMereChristians.com. Thank you, guys, so much for listening, I’ll see you next week.
[END]