Faith in the face of crisis and critical feedback
Ricky’s spiritual disciplines during the listeria crisis at Blue Bell, how to accept critical feedback humbly and winsomely, and how a college paper on Blue Bell landed him his career.
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0:00:05.4] JR: Hey friend, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast, I’m Jordan Raynor. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians, those of us who aren’t pastors or religious professionals but who work as transcriptionists, consultants, and zoologists? That’s the question we explore every week and today, I’m posing it to Ricky Dickson, the former CEO of Blue Bell Creameries, where Ricky spent his 40-plus year career.
Ricky and I recently sat down to discuss his spiritual disciplines during the insane listeria crisis at Blue Bell, we talked about how to accept critical feedback practically and humbly, and how Ricky’s paper that he wrote in college landed him his first job at Blue Bell, which of course, turned into a full-fledged career. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy this conversation with my new friend.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:11.9] JR: Ricky Dickson, welcome to The Mere Christians Podcast.
[0:01:14.4] RD: Well, thank you, it is such an honor and it’s so great to be here. Thank you so much.
[0:01:18.6] JR: So, my household, we are big Blue Bell fans. If we’re hanging out at Publix and looking for ice cream, Blue Bell is usually where we’re going. You spent 40 years, more than 40 years at the company. So, I got to ask, is there a retired flavor that my kids wouldn’t know of that you wish that they could try?
[0:01:37.7] RD: Oh, wow, gosh, that is a great question. Never been asked. Okay, now that you asked, there was a flavor right when I started, it was called, caramel turtle fudge, and it was those little turtles, you know, the candy, not the actual – like, the new animal, whatever but caramel turtle fudge. It had that gooey caramel, oh, the pecan. Anyway, this goes way back early 80s but I think that the turtle people were a little – they didn’t like the word turtle, and so we had to redo it, and you know, it’s a flavor I haven’t thought of but that one takes me way back to my beginning days. It was one that, yeah, if they could come back, boy, it would be awesome.
[0:02:19.1] JR: Let’s pray it gets resurrected on the new earth, recreated by God’s people on those dairy farms without the curse. What’s your favorite flavor today?
[0:02:27.6] RD: Today, I would go to two categories, I have my hall of fame category of homemade vanilla because you have to say homemade vanilla. I think it’s almost, you know, if you don’t include that then you lose all your credibility but outside of that, salted caramel brownie, which just probably is at its tail end, they cycle that one in or rotated in throughout the years. So, salted caramel ice cream with that chewy brownie, and that’s what amazes me, a little – it’s almost like eating little bits of fudge. It was so good, so yeah.
[0:02:56.3] JR: Oh man, I haven’t had that one, I’ve had my fair share of Blue Bell ice cream but I’ve never had that, I got to look out for that.
[0:03:02.5] RD: It’s a good one.
[0:03:03.1] JR: We’re going to talk about how your faith has influenced how you worked in your 40-plus years at Blue Bell but I want to start like, more foundationally, why do you think ice cream matters to God, right? Sure, the people within the business matter to Him, but does ice cream itself matter to God?
[0:03:22.5] RD: Well, absolutely. In fact, I think, if you look up homemade vanilla in the Greek term, it really means milk and honey. Okay, that’s a loose interpretation so I apologize but you know, I think it’s –
[0:03:34.3] JR: The Dickson version.
[0:03:36.4] RD: Yeah, that’s right. That hasn’t been published yet and I don’t look forward to –
[0:03:39.9] JR: The RDV translation, right?
[0:03:42.2] RD: I do have my new book out, One Scoop at a Time, but that is not in the book, so forgive me for that. I would say that the thing that makes you know ice cream in itself special is that it truly is something at the end of the day that can either help you celebrate a great day, an anniversary or birthday, or just a great day or also, erase a bad day. You know, it can lift you back up, and I think that you know, God works that way.
He does place things in our life that have his fingerprint on it. You know, you take just the pureness of milk from cows, and then you turn it into the sweet concoction, that can be rewarding and I tell you, in the book, I have a couple of different chapters on how ice cream, Blue Bell ice cream specifically, has related to lives of individuals, to families, how they celebrate around it.
It takes you to memories of the past and are also, helps you create memories of the current and for the future and so I think when I saw that and I saw the impact of how something so simple as homemade vanilla, relates to a grandpa that’s come down with dementia and yet when he eats homemade vanilla, he seems to come to life. That just, it reminds me of how great our God is. It does sound a little – I don’t want to say cliché.
But at the same time, I think it’s really, really honestly powerful because God does love us more than we can comprehend in as something as simple as ice cream. If that can be a special moment in anyone’s day, then let’s rejoice in that.
[0:05:14.4] JR: That’s exactly right. This quote is attributed, I’ve heard it attributed to Ben Franklin, I’ve heard it attributed to CS Lewis but the old quote that beer is proof that God loves us and wants to be happy, and I think the same is true for ice cream, right? Joy matters to God, Christ came to give us abundant life and of course, we interpret that primarily spiritually but He is Lord of the spiritual and the material.
He created us in the garden to work with the material world, to take the animals and cattle and extract dairy and make more of it to create culture, and so I think all of that points to the intrinsic good of ice cream, amen?
[0:05:55.6] RD: Amen. Absolutely.
[0:05:57.1] JR: Hey, you already mentioned the book, which I loved what I’ve read of it, this recently published memoir of your time at Blue Bell, called, One Scoop at a Time: Stories and Lessons from Fear to Faith, and we talked right before we started recording that that subtitle’s caught people off guard and I really loved it. I thought that emphasis on “from fear to faith” specifically was really interesting. Why do you feel that that was a dominant theme during your time at Blue Bell?
[0:06:26.1] RD: Well, I think that for sitting down to start to write the book, I started my career by writing a paper on Blue Bell back in Baylor University when I was a student. We got an assignment to follow a company for a whole semester. I called my dad from my apartment that evening and said, “I’ve got this project, what do you think?” And he said, “Well, I’ve just sat down reading this article in a magazine on this little ice cream company in Brenham Texas. Let me start it over.”
And I mean, he literally was reading it when I called and I thought, “Well, man, that’s perfect.” And I went down to interview the information for my paper but what I saw was just something special and so, I went back, filled out an application, and I applied and like you said, 43 plus years later, and now retiring.
[0:07:08.7] JR: So, pro tip, if you want a job at a dream employer, just go write a paper while in college.
[0:07:15.8] RD: That’s right.
[0:07:16.4] JR: Is that the lesson?
[0:07:16.9] RD: That’s it, that’s it. Yes, that’s right.
[0:07:19.0] JR: So, why “Fear to faith?” Was this a theme throughout your 40 years, was it just when you took over as CEO? Like, talk more about this.
[0:07:25.2] RD: Yeah, yes, and I apologize, I kind of transitioned back but the –
[0:07:27.5] JR: Oh no, you’re okay, this is a great story –
[0:07:29.6] RD: Fear to faith. I just felt like, especially in the latter days of my career, and also just in my personal life, I mean, the longer anyone lives, you’re going to have trials, period, that’s just part of it. In fact, you know, I’ve always loved James Wan where he says, the account of pure joy when you encounter trials, and I’ve always thought, “Pure joy? Trials? I don’t, that doesn’t add up at the same time.”
If it wasn’t for the trials, I wouldn’t have the faith that I have today. I wouldn’t have the relationship with Christ that I have today, and so on the backend, to start with the paper at the beginning of my career and to write a book at the end of the career, I felt like it was really important to not just talk about ice cream and Blue Bell in what we went through and have gone through as a company.
But also, what I’ve gone through on a personal note but to take it deeper, when you’re in the middle of the trial, how do you ride the storm out? How do you hunker down to be able to have the peace that passes all understanding in the middle of the trial? And so, that became the theme and the heart of the book. How do you find peace or how do you find the assurance that God’s got this in the middle of a storm and turn that into faith?
Because that’s the thing that we can give back to God is our faith and trust in Him when things aren’t going well and so, that pretty much – I won’t say, every chapter but most chapters pivot in that direction, with scriptures and you know, just life lessons on, “Yes, you can have peace in the middle of a storm if you just release.” You know, I say, look up don’t look within, and things will fall into place.
[0:09:02.5] JR: Yeah, it’s really good. I love memoirs that are not just, “Here’s my story.” I love memoirs that are, “Here’s my story, and here’s the theme, and here’s what I’ve learned that can help you in a similar situation.” And that’s definitely what this book is. So, I would love to go deep into just one of those trials that you talk about in the book to unpack a little bit more practically how the gospel shaped your response to those trials.
And specifically, I’d love to talk about when you took over the reins as president of Blue Bell at a pretty fearful time at February 2017. Can you take our listeners inside of the listeria crisis that you kind of inherited and were walking into as you stepped into this leadership role?
[0:09:43.0] RD: Yeah, sure, absolutely. Obviously, we started in 1907 as a little butter company, and so, we have been around for all, you know, over a hundred-plus years but that has to be the – probably the thing that hit us the hardest of any particular time. Ice cream is supposed to be a safe product, it’s a low-risk product, it’s a minus 20-degree pasteurized product and so, when that event took place, it took us to our knees.
It was devastating and yet, as we circled around and as we came together, both collectively as management teams and independently or individually is on my own, I just trusted that, “Look, God, whatever comes from this, I’m going to give it to you, and all I ask is that you help navigate and give me the words, give me the thoughts, give me the direction on what we need to do as a company.” Especially when I took over in 2017.
This is a big deal, 3,500 employees, we’re trying to get our feet back under as a company. He was so, so faithful and so gracious to help guide me and direct me. Not to say that every decision I made was the right one but I knew where my source of strength came from and that was from God.
[0:10:52.3] JR: Yeah. Man, it’s really good, and yeah, I mean, this was a true crisis. You got 3,500 employees, you know the CDC formerly recognized 10 illnesses, three deaths associated with this crisis. So, as you’re stepping into this role, I got to imagine, there’s a tension here, right? There is this tension between wanting to honor the leaders that came ahead of you, who built this great company.
But then there’s also a tension of like, “Man, but I really want to get to the bottom of what happened here, make sure it doesn’t happen again.” This kind of loyalty to the customer. How did you wrestle with that?
[0:11:27.4] RD: Yeah, I think, to be real honest, the amazing thing was, it was a very cohesive decision to say, “We’re going to do it, we’re going to do the right thing from the very beginning.” We have a problem and we can either put a band-aid on it or we can fix it, and when you take that second approach, it takes a lot longer and costs a lot more. I just think we started with the passion of ice cream and the passion of flavors and we just thought that the consumer deserved that.
And so, instead of just maybe what I would say cleaning what we see on the surface, we took a deep dive. We did things that were – I mean, we took all the equipment out, we tarped the floors, we took down the walls, we replaced ceilings, we redid all kind of airflow, and then we came back in and refabricated equipment, and then put the most unbelievable, robust testing, environmental testing program in place to where from the time you walk through the very door of the building, everything’s being tested.
And so, that really was embraced before I took over. That was in 2016 that if we’re going to survive, and we’re not just going to survive for a month or a year, we’re going to come back as long as we possibly can that we have to do the right things, and so when I stepped in, it was really not just taking that same philosophy but just – not just continuing that but even taking it to a deeper level, if possible, and so we continue to analyze every aspect of the business.
The way we – from a food safety standpoint, and that included microbiologists coming in from the outside, continued examinations from outside companies that would come in and audit us and just really, put us in the fire of what we were doing and I can tell you, I am so proud of what we are today. It does cost a lot of money but I can also tell you that yeah, I can go to bed at night resting knowing that we’ve done everything we possibly can to make it as safe as possible.
[0:13:22.7] JR: Yeah, and that’s the point of it. I think about all of Paul’s frequent commands, and scripture to do the right thing for your neighbor, even when nobody is watching. I’m thinking about II Corinthians eight – I believe it’s verse 21 where Paul says, “We are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men, right? I mean, you guys probably made some really painful decisions that the general public didn’t see but that was the call of the Lord on your life because you believed your work is a means of ministering to your fellow man, right?
[0:13:57.7] RD: That’s right. I think that that – we had that responsibility, and it’s not that what we were doing. What we were doing was industry standards, which are very comfortable. I like to say we are a low risk on the board. So, I think it taught everybody not just Blue Bell as a company but I think, the industry and even to the FDA and CDC and I think you constantly are learning, and I think that’s what’s so key is don’t rest.
Keep learning, keep looking for ways to do the right thing in every possible way. When this presented itself, we knew we had that responsibility to do that and so, I love that passage because that’s right, not just for God but also for fellow man.
[0:14:33.6] JR: Yeah, that’s good. All right, so, you’re new to this role in 2017, you’ve already talked about – I love the way you put it in the book, “Success starts by looking up and listening.” Take us inside what that looked like practically when you were running the company day to day. Take us inside your daily prayer habits when you are navigating that crisis.
[0:14:53.7] RD: Yeah, I think, depending upon what the day presented, people ask, “What’s your normal day look like?” and I said, “Which one?” Because they all look different. So – but I think that that was the beauty of it is to – my day starts around 4:30 in the morning, which came actually naturally. Now that I’ve been retired since March, a month that to about 5:30. So, I feel like I’m sleeping in, which sounds crazy.
[0:15:14.4] JR: Lazy man, lazy man, yeah.
[0:15:15.8] RD: I know, and I know it. It starts with quiet time, and then what I was doing was actually, I shifted and started going for walks, and so I would go down to our park Brenham and walk a couple, two to three miles and in that time, I tried to really – this is going to sound different but I try to open my walk with just, “God, speak to me today, and let me listen to what You’re telling me today, what do You want to put on my heart?”
“What do You want to put on my mind that you are trying to get my attention?” And as I walked, I just tried to quit talking and listening for a change. As I did that, things would come to mind and it could be situations at work, it could be, whether it be a problem or could it be an event, or some strategic plan that we’re putting into place but it allowed me time to just really listen for a change instead of doing all the talking in my prayer life.
And so, that was probably one of the bigger changes that I did independently, it’s that time of listening but then it’s the walk within, then devote it back into prayer, just that plea request, and Philippians 4:6 and seven, stills my life first, don’t be anxious about anything so don’t get so excited about the day that already the worries of the day have taken you over before you get in the car to go to work.
But don’t be anxious about anything but everything through preparations that the stipulation presents the request of the Lord. I’m looking for the piece that passes understanding and it’s right there in the heart of that passage and so, by the time I’m in the car, man, I’m ready, because I’ve got God on my side and when I walk through the door, I’m walking in representing Him, and I try honestly to do that every day.
I won’t tell you that I did every day because there were days that were, you know, more demanding and/or, more you know, your mind will drift if you allow it, and that was my goal. That was my heart, was to really be mindful with what is around me and how can I not necessarily be a boss but be a leader and be a guider and be a teacher, and that’s how I spent the seven years as president and CEO.
[0:17:16.4] JR: I want to go a level deeper there because your predecessor from what I could tell was also an outspoken Christian. He left the company, I think there were some legal issues going on. With that, I don't know all the details and I don’t think we need to get into them but coming into a situation like that, like, I think you probably felt an even greater pressure, right? To uphold the integrity of what it means to be a Christian leader of Blue Bell.
So, how did you think about that? What steps did you take to be just totally above reproach, and be a winsome representative of Christ to those 3,500 employees?
[0:17:53.9] RD: Yeah, I think the biggest thing was to not think of the title as a title but as a responsibility and so for the seven years, I had someone come up to me, I don't know, maybe second, third year I was president, they said, “There’s times when we mentioned the word president, you seemed a little uncomfortable.” And I said, “I’m not comfortable on responsibility but I am very mindful of not becoming prideful in the position because it is a responsibility.”
I took it that way. When I stepped down, I want Blue Bell to be successful because of the things that we did and not because of anything that I can say, hang my hat on, or do. That’s a hard battle because we’re human and it’s natural. I want to put in, you know, when you step in to do things your way so you can kind of make your name or your legacy. I want my legacy to be that in the middle of it, I was on my knees.
That boy who said, “Thank God.” I think that that would be the greatest compliment because it was not of me and so, Paul was a great man, I love working underneath him, I love working both for his uncle and his father, and they were the two presidents prior to him being our president and they all three had different management styles. Incredibly different but you can learn from anybody, and all three, I took their strings and tried to just kind of compound on those.
And yet, be who I am and who God’s made me, and so – but I think, you can get really caught up in a title and I have a chapter in my book that actually talks about a real, real pivotal moment in my career where I thought I was getting a promotion and I was actually being called in to get a pretty stern evaluation, let’s put it that way.
[0:19:31.9] JR: Oh my gosh, Ricky, are you reading my notes? This is exactly what I wanted to ask you about. This is so good, all right, so.
[0:19:38.8] RD: All good, so good.
[0:19:40.0] JR: So, tell the story. You’re talking about the story with this dinner with Melvin and John, right?
[0:19:43.3] RD: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
[0:19:43.9] JR: Yeah, tell the story.
[0:19:45.4] RD: Well, you know, I had a mood fest and the coming itself was growing in a very rapid pace, and so I started in 1981 in Dallas. The market was exploding then and the next thing I knew at the age of 24, they’re asking me to come to San Antonio to become branch manager, which just you know, I’m green behind the ears but I am going to take the position because I’m back home. That’s where I grew up, in fact, we’re two miles from my hometown.
I mean, my home. We’re in – we’re right down the street from where I grew up and so when they came and said, “We’re going to open up a brand new territory outside of Texas and with the possibility of this becoming a whole new region, we would like for you to be that person. I had the struggle, do I stay comfortable and stay in my hometown and stay with my family and brothers and sister and nephews and nieces or do I walk by faith and step out?
But it’s interesting when you had that decision because I could have gone either way and I think either way could have been right but at the same time, I was really truthfully praying, “God, I don’t want to go just for the promotion but this sounds exciting.” And so, I get to Oklahoma City and it gets really, really quiet, and so I’m thinking, “Okay, then I move for the right reason that I’m here or what, you know, why aren’t we talking about this new region?”
And so, when the phone call finally comes and they said after we – we had two meetings a year where all the management got together and we’re in this meeting, they said they want to talk to me after the meeting or the dinner is over with, and I said, “Well, this must be it.” So, I go into the room thinking, “Boy, this is exciting.” I can tell as soon as I walked in that this was not a celebration room, this was just the opposite.
So, I sit down and Melvin, who is my immediate supervisor boss, starts in, and he had a page and a half handwritten single-spaced notes of things that either things I wasn’t doing that I used to or things I should be doing that I wasn’t but the bottom line was I was not where I should have been and I had somehow drifted from center and got maybe comfortable in the future being promoted to this position.
And wow, you’re talking about just a role, eye-opening experience. I go back to my hotel, sit down on the bed, and then I’m frustrated. I won’t lie, I’m thinking, “God, I thought I was – I heard Your voice. I thought You said to move here, I thought this is what You wanted me to do.” And I am telling you as clear as day even though it went inaudibly, I heard Him speak to me. He said, “You’re here not for your promotion but for My purpose.”
And still, to this day, the hairs on my arms stand up because I realized I’d gotten caught up in the title, in the position, and I had drifted away from the responsibility, the job that I was asked to do from the start and I had a decision to make. Am I going to pout and am I going to – well, they promised me and I am going to lead this company and I am going to try something different or I am going to listen to the Father’s voice?
And it was probably the single most impacting moments in my career to where, “God, if you had me here for Your purpose, then I want to lock into whatever that purpose is, and my only prayer is that whatever the position is that you lead me to, give me a passion to do it for Your glory and I will hit it as hard as I can for Your glory.” And ironically, it wasn’t long after that I find myself not in that position of promotion.
But I am actually now moved over and I’m now running the production facility in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. So, I’m marketing, journalism major asked to run a production facility, which was never on my radar but I knew, “Okay, if this is God, if this is You, and this is what You wanted, then let’s do it.” And it just changed my attitude and from that point and looking back now, those six years running that plant was the foundation I needed on the other side I want to say it, because sales came natural.
Production was something I needed to learn but it set the stage for my ability to run the plant – run the company in 2017 because I had full now knowledge of both sides of our operations and so it’s easy to look back and that’s for – it’s fun to look back and say, “Okay, God, I see what you’re doing.” But I go back to that piece during that trial, how do you get it, in the middle of it but I found it there.
I go, “Okay, if You want me to do this, then this is what I’m going to do, and I am going to do it with joy.”
[0:23:57.8] JR: That’s good. So, there are a ton of lessons just from this one little story but one I want to zero in on, I think it’s an interesting case study on how to receive critical feedback well because it sounds like when you first saw that, you know, page and a half single-spaced, you know, document full of notes from what I could tell in the book, you’re pretty angry. You didn’t want to receive that feedback well.
But how did that time alone in the hotel room with your heavenly Father and hearing His voice and His feedback make you more receptive in that moment and throughout your career to the critical feedback of other human beings?
[0:24:37.5] RD: I think it’s so natural to go defensive. In fact, during the evaluation, I’m ready to argue every single point that –
[0:24:37.5] JR: Yeah, of course, as I would be, yeah.
[0:24:47.5] RD: So, like, “Wait a minute, no.” But I think that so often that I hope to pivot but I’ll say even in my marriage, there were times where I know I’m right and I realize later I know I’m wrong, and so your pride at the time, you think, “No, this is what it is.” It’s such an eye-opening experience to just stop. I have a thing that I like to do is when I get emotionally into something, whether it be an employee or situation, once I see and feel and sense that my emotions have taken over, I really need to stop and give it time to get back to a rational way of thinking.
Because it’s amazing what a good night's sleep will do and just to get your head back whatever things settle us back down. The fracking of the mind has happened and now everything is kind of back in its place and I think in this case, that’s what happened and I carried that evaluation with me probably for the next 10 years in my briefcase and if I’m on an airplane and I am looking to do some work and I am stumbling through the briefcase and I come across it, I’d pull it out and reread it.
Just keep rereading it, just trying to again stay centered, and it’s funny because they were right. They weren’t wrong, they were right. To see that and to see that there was an objective evaluation from someone that actually cared about me and cared about my future that saw a future in me because I wouldn’t be in that position if I hadn’t, you know, been asked or if they didn’t see something in there.
But they also cared enough to be honest with me and say, “Look, you’re not in the same path, and if you don’t get back on the right path, you’re going to be going definitely down the wrong road.” And so, anytime you get criticism of any kind like that, I think it’s important that you listen. It doesn’t matter if you agree or not and give it time and let it marinate because our time set, God is trying to use others to teach, correct in both your spiritual life and as a leader and just the sake of the world, yeah.
[0:26:39.2] JR: That’s right, and I love that principle of just like you’re resting before you react to that feedback specifically, go to sleep. Talk about prior to walking into the room though, like I want you to imagine you’re talking to a listener and she is about to go in for her end-of-quarter review at, I don’t know, the job she has at McKenzie and company, whatever, right? What would you encourage her to do as a mere Christian before she walks in the room to be prepared to accept that constructive feedback in a winsome way?
[0:27:11.6] RD: That’s a great question and I think that the benefit that I had in this situation or in my situation and I kind of just mentioned is I really believe that those that were doing the evaluation had my best interest at heart. It was not something on there, you know, to make them look better, and that’s what’s bad. Sometimes, you have a supervisor or boss that is trying to keep you down so that makes them look good.
And so, I think that going with an open mind, listen to what they have to say, evaluate it, pray through it, and you may come to the other side to say, there was an either an ulterior motive behind this or, “Well, I don’t see what they’re seeing.” And so, therefore, I think then you’d have to do the self-evaluation even in the right place or, “God, are You trying to show me something?” Even in a situation that it doesn’t add up because He may still have you there for a reason that doesn’t make sense.
But yet, He is using you for a purpose, and so I have to be careful when I navigate through that. Again, I was blessed because I really – my boss was a believer. We talk scripture all the time, so I truly trusted his heart that he was doing this for my own good but I have seen even you know, from friends and whatnot when I listen to their story, that is not the case, that they are being put in a position where you know, whether it be an exploited or they’re being – they’re held back because they are exceeding beyond what they should be and a threat, maybe is the best word, so.
[0:28:37.8] JR: Yeah, yeah, for sure. For me, so in my context today as a writer and full-time content creator, usually this constructive feedback comes from editors, right? You know, I’m about to get notes on the next book, whatever and I’ve tried to discipline myself to before I read through those notes, first, try to imagine how the Master, Master Jesus, and the parable of the talents, would judge my faithfulness in the work.
Can I honestly look at this project, this book, and say that I gave this my very best that I invested my talents as wisely as I know how to His glory and the good of others? And if I can say yes, man, that makes receiving that feedback a lot easier because I know that I have the Master’s pleasure, right? Before I get a verdict that frankly is fairly inconsequential from some other human being.
Now, I still want that feedback, I listen to every single note. I don’t necessarily take the prescribed advice but I listen to every single note because I trust that even if they’re not trying to make me look better, even if they don’t have my best interest at heart, which for the record, my editors do, God does and God is working every single piece of feedback even from a terrible boss for my good and my sanctification and for His glory.
[0:29:56.4] RD: That’s right, that totally is correct.
[0:29:58.6] JR: Hey, Ricky, you retired from Blue Bell in 2023, and I love, you said this, I think somewhere in the book that you prefer the term refire to retire. Tell us what you mean by that.
[0:30:12.8] RD: Well, that actually was just this past March. So, we actually made it into ’24 but barely I should say but no problem there. I think that the best way I can explain that is I truly believe that when God placed me in the position of president and CEO that He had a purpose, and so my struggle on the backend is I’m now 65 years old and then position to retire, is it what God wants?
And you know, I didn’t want to step out just because I could step out or step off and so, that’s where I spent and it – the process of retiring actually took a little over two years both in the decision process and with myself and also with the board but I did not want to just step away. We did relocate from Brenham Texas up to Oklahoma City. We have eight beautiful grandchildren, four of which are under 12 years old in Oklahoma City.
And so, we gravitated to those that still are little and loved and all those things but I didn’t want to just step away and get on the rocking chair per se. I got a whole another season of life that I, you know, someone came up the other day and said, “You are entering the fourth quarter. So, put those four fingers up in the air like you would in a football game and go in and give it your best.” I love that analogy and so, that refiring is just that and I truly believe that God said yes.
“You’ve done what I’ve asked but you’re not finished.” And so, my prayer is that I don’t necessarily want to know yet God what that is unless You want to show me but I want to give everything I possibly can to Blue Bell until the day I do step away but I’m ready to go back to work and I’m ready to go back to work and for Your glory in whatever capacity and so, the book was a great way to segue.
The last months of last year and in the beginning of this year, we were able not only to write it but get it published and get it you know, on the market. I just know that there’s some real exciting days ahead and I know that will come with trials, it will come with all kinds of things but that refire is what you’ve trained for your whole life, and I go back to the analogy as we hit this fourth quarter in my life, I’m ready. Put me in, coach, I’m ready to play. So, hopefully, that makes sense.
[0:32:20.7] JR: I think that’s the right perspective. There is zero biblical evidence whatsoever for the American version of retirement that a soul does. Now, God maybe called you to retire from this job that you currently get paid for but He will never ask you to retire from the work of the Lord, right?
[0:32:38.5] RD: That’s right, that’s right, absolutely.
[0:32:40.2] JR: Ever and so, I mean, I think about Paul when he talks about working and expending all of the energy he has for the sake of Christ and His gospel. I love that. All right Ricky, four questions we wrap up every episode with.
[0:32:55.5] RD: Okay.
[0:32:56.2] JR: Look ahead to the new earth, Isiah 65 says we will long enjoy the work of our hands on the new earth, even heaven on earth is not a vacation or retirement but an eternal vocation free from the sin. What job would you love God to give you on the new earth? You want to be milking cows to create redeemed Blue Bell ice cream, what do you want to be doing?
[0:33:20.2] RD: And to be honest, that’s a great question because you know, my mind went all over just as long as there is mountains around me and I could see you know, God’s creation, I’ll do, you know, just put me to work in whatever you want me to do.
[0:33:32.4] JR: Put me in coach, wherever you want me.
[0:33:33.8] RD: That’s right, that’s right, I love the question, yeah.
[0:33:36.3] JR: I think that’s right and I think what will make it enjoyable, right? Isiah says long enjoy the work of our hands is not primarily the work itself but the fact that we will be intimately with the Lord fully in a way that is – we get glimpses of today but it’s hard to truly comprehend. All right, Ricky, second of our final four questions, if we open up your Amazon order history, which book would we see you purchasing the most to give away to your friends?
[0:34:05.0] RD: Another great question. I gravitate to now, I’m so blessed to say a good friend, Mark Batterson, who pastors a church out of Washington DC.
[0:34:15.0] JR: Mark is a good friend of mine, I love Mark.
[0:34:16.6] RD: Is that right? Go, yeah, he’s just – I found a book, well, Chase the Lion is where it started. Again, I go back to the Holy Bible app, I was looking for a devotional series, found Chase the Lion, I thought that was intriguing that led me to a story that takes too long to tell but I love his book, If, your what-ifs reality and set up if-only regrets, and there’s so many nuggets that are found in Mark Batterson’s writings.
That here, lately, I just – whenever I usually have speeches, especially the young kids or college students or adults, dream big but pray God places the dream within you and then go with enthusiasm, and trust and so, that’s what I would say. It’s a great read, it’s for anybody, even someone that may not know Christ but it’s a great way to find Christ but it’s a book also that can be a real blessing.
[0:35:09.0] JR: I love it, it’s really good. Hey, Ricky, who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how the gospel influences the work that mere Christians do in the world?
[0:35:17.2] RD: I would say, the first name that just jumps to my mind, I have talked to in a few times, I’ve not met him in person but Tim Tassopoulos, which he just retired as president and CEO of –
[0:35:27.4] JR: From Chick-fil-A.
[0:35:28.4] RD: Chick-fil-A, yes, absolutely. I had the opportunity to talk to him a few different times and I was really intrigued by his career path because it was very similar to mine, where he started and his process of going through a company that you know, just stands on biblical principles, you know, and lives it and so, I think he’d be an awesome choice, and then I’ll shift gears just a little.
I am a Scottie Scheffler fan from the time he entered the golf tour. I picked a good one because he seems to be doing really well. He’s human, he’s had some great moments and he’s also had some fun moments that of course, the world will pick apart but I love his faith. I love where he stands and the fact that even with the masters, he made it very clear that when his wife went into labor that he would be heading to the hospital. So, those two names pop into my mind.
[0:36:14.4] JR: Those are good names, those are good names. Hey, Ricky, you’re talking to this global audience of mere Christians, who are doing a lot of different things professionally, but what they share is a desire to do everything including their work for God’s glory and the good of others, what’s one thing you want to leave them with before we sign off?
[0:36:32.4] RD: I would say, if I – I’ll do this real quick, I would do two things. One is I would – as much as we’ve talked about the gospel and how God works in our life, Paul did such a great job in Romans 12, one through, really, I think it’s 12. I live in those passages, living, you know, presenting my body as a living sacrifice, looking and seeking God’s will, knowing God’s will, love like you, love like, you know, love your neighbor as yourself, really love.
Don’t be lazy, be patient in trouble, those are just some great nuggets that are wrapped up into that and so, just those – that’s one passage I love to go back to, and then the other is kind of a three-part principle that I live by is you have – God’s got you here for a purpose. He has placed you here, He loves you more than you can comprehend, and you are here for a purpose. Pray for the passion to go into that purpose.
But thirdly, and I’ll end with this is being patient because He is molding you in a way that only He can do, and if you will allow that, again, peaceful calm, and knowing that even with the trials that one day when you stand before His glory, you gave it your very best.
[0:37:38.6] JR: That’s really good and so rare in this day and age to exude that patience but man, Ricky, it sounds like you’re doing that. I want to commend you, brother, for the exceptional work you have done and are doing for the glory of God and the good of others, for the reminder that because the Lord is with us, we’ve got nothing to fear, and I just loved, man, I wrote this down as you were talking, this legacy that you wish those 3,500 Blue Bell employees would remember you as, that in the middle of the crisis, you were on your knees.
So, thank you for giving us such a great model of prayer, faithfulness, and this has just been a joy. Guys, Ricky’s book is one scoop at a time which by the way, there couldn’t have been another title, that was the only possible title.
[0:38:24.2] RD: That’s right, that’s right.
[0:38:24.5] JR: For a book from Ricky Dickson. Ricky, thanks for spending time with us today.
[0:38:29.4] RD: Oh, no. Thank you, and thank you for mentioning the book. It is on Amazon and I’m just letting God use those as seeds and I hope people do enjoy it but thank you so, so much for this opportunity and I continued to – I’ll be praying for you as well, for this ministry.
[0:38:43.9] JR: Thank you, Ricky.
[0:38:45.0] RD: Continue on the journey.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:38:47.2] JR: Hey, if you’re enjoying the Mere Christians Podcast, do me a huge favor. Can you take five seconds right now to go leave a five-star rating of the show on Apple, Spotify, wherever you're listening right now? We read every single one of these reviews, and they are a huge encouragement to my team that is producing this show. So, if you want to thank them, do so by leaving a review at the Mere Christians Podcast right now. Thank you, guys, so much for listening, I’ll see you next week.
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