Finding Impact (not Product) Market Fit
Jordan Raynor sits down with Lorin & Kyle Van Zandt, Co-founders of MISSIO Hair, to talk about the difference between Product Market Fit and Impact Market Fit, the top lesson they’ve learned working with Chip and Joanna Gaines’ Magnolia brands, and how to work in light of the assured victory of Christ.
Links Mentioned:
[0:00:05.3] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Every week, I’m bringing you a conversation with somebody who is following Jesus Christ and also pursuing world-class mastery of their craft. We're talking about their path to mastery, their daily habits and routines, and how their faith influences their work.
This is a phenomenal episode. You'll know that when you get to the end of it and hear how I’m setting this episode aside for my kids when they're old enough to hear it. I can't wait for them to listen to this one. Today, you're going to hear from Lorin and Kyle Van Zandt. They're the Co-Founders and Co-CEOs of MISSIO Hair, this really innovative company that basically uses hair products as a means to identify and rescue victims of sex trafficking.
Fascinating work. They have a great and rapidly growing business, growing at more than a 100% a year. Recently, MISSIO was hand-picked as one of only 90 companies whose products are featured at Magnolia Market, Chip and Joanna Gaines’ Magnolia Market, at the silos there in Waco, Texas. Lorin and Kyle and I recently sat down, we talked about the difference between product market fit and impact market fit for redemptive entrepreneurs. We talked about the top lesson the Van Zandts learned working with Chip and Joanna Gaines, and we talked about how to work in light of the assured certain victory of Jesus Christ.
Please enjoy this terrific episode with my friends, Lorin and Kyle Van Zandt.
[EPISODE]
[00:01:54] JR: Lorin and Kyle, thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:56] LVZ: Hi, Jordan.
[00:01:57] KVZ: Hey, Jordan. Great to be here. Thank you for having us.
[00:02:00] JR: This could be a lot of fun. Lorin, a very softball question to start out, just to help our listeners wrap their heads around MISSIO. Hopefully, I’m pronouncing that correctly. What is MISSIO Hair? What do you guys do?
[00:02:13] LVZ: Yes. MISSIO Hair, we are an affordable luxury hair product company with a purpose. We have a heart for restoring hope, and fighting human trafficking, and using beauty in creative ways to do that. It's all carried forward by a line of hair products, carried in salons and boutiques around the country.
[00:02:36] JR: I love it. Kyle, you and I talked for the first time, I don't know, six months ago, something like that. I immediately fell in love with the business what you guys are doing. I love that you guys basically sell hair products as a vehicle for other initiatives. They're basically a means to an end. Can you explain what those initiatives are?
[00:02:56] LVZ: Yeah. Over the years, we've really honed in on what we can use beauty to do. That's just through a lot of experience. Lorin can tell a story a little bit later, but the first experience she had working with victims of human trafficking was serving them, just using a simple act of a beauty service to really help restore a sense of worth, a sense of identity, a sense of hope for women coming out of very difficult and challenging situations. That's where we started off.
Over the years, recognizing the place of the beauty industry and the opportunity for hair stylists to be very vigilant in their communities led us to see that education was a really, really important aspect to what we do. We actually educate salons and communities to identify potential victims of human trafficking. We've partnered with some professionals who've really helped us come up with the – to help stylists identify red flags.
We serve used beauty as Lorin did originally, just to serve women who are either at risk, or in recovery from exploitation. Then of course, being a product line, we want to build a really strong brand, really strong company that generates a lot of revenue. We give. We give to non-profit partners who are fighting human trafficking worldwide.
[00:04:10] JR: I love it. Lorin, let's go to your backstory a little bit. What's the story and take as much time as you'd like. I just love to hear the story and the path that led you to this work?
[00:04:20] LVZ: Absolutely. I have loved doing hair all of my life. It started out as a hobby. I was the girl that had 10 people in our kitchen when it was time for prom and booking people, even in college, in the dorm rooms, cutting people's hair. Always loving to do hair for friends and neighbors. It was just a gift, but also, something I developed a passion for and an interest with. I have been doing hair since I was 15. I even did my first wedding, an actual bride walking down the aisle trusted me as a –
[00:05:01] JR: High-stakes. High-stakes. Yeah.
[00:05:05] LVZ: – to do her hair. I just went for it confidently. Thinking, “Sure. I can do this.” Since then, I’m 35 now, so that was 20 years ago that I have been just – this has been something I love. It's a gift that I believe God has given me that is not only an art. I really see it as an art with a very interesting medium. Someone's hair using all of these tools, in order to create the vision that you have. Also, I loved it, because of the time that it afforded me to spend with people.
There was something so special, and so beautiful about seeing someone's face light up as a result of what it was that I was able to do in maybe 15 minutes to an hour. Not only that, but we had the opportunity to get to know each other to do life together, for me to be a listener, sometimes to be able to just hear what's going on in their life. To form relationships with people, I always say, the gift of doing someone's hair allows you, whether you've known someone for 10 years, or 10 minutes to go deep, because there's a connection that's created. People will say, “Man, my hair stylist is like my counselor.”
[00:06:26] JR: Yeah, it's a weird, intimate relationship that's pretty hard to replicate in any other service, or product environment, right?
[00:06:35] LVZ: I agree. 100%. I started seeing this early on and unofficially. I mean, I didn't really realize it at the time. I just enjoyed it so much. I just loved it so much. I felt like I was energized and gained life from doing it. It's because I was making people not only look a little bit different, which was one part of it, obviously, and feel refreshed, but also, feel and maybe even believe something a little new about themselves, change their day after spending time doing something so simple.
Yeah, and I felt like, “My goodness, this is so powerful.” I had the opportunity as a teenager also, to be the shampoo girl at a hair salon, under a mentor of mine that is still a dear friend, a mentor of both of ours, who I watched. He owned a salon and he used that chair and that space to love people so well. He was a cheerleader of every single person that sat in his chair. You could tell, people visited him for the time that they got to spend there. Not just the fresh haircut, but the time that he spent. When you were in Mark's chair, there was nothing else, or no one else more important. Even if it was –
[00:07:58] JR: He’s fully engaged. Fully present. It reminds me of what people would say about Mr. Rogers. Real-life Mr. Rogers, how, when he was talking to you, regardless of what your position was, he was just all in. You were the only thing that ever mattered. I love this idea of you viewing hair through this lens of the ministry of excellence. You're just serving people really, really well, and that is ministry.
There did come a point in your story where you're like, “Oh, there's this more overt means of ministry here, where we can use these services to help spot women who are being trafficked and help provide support to those women.” How did that happen?
[00:08:43] LVZ: Right. As I grew, ended up getting my cosmetology license. I actually, also, got my degree as a teacher in school. I realized that cosmetology and this whole idea of hair and all that I was passionate about was so powerful and that it was something that I was called to do. I started – we were actually living in Southern California at the time working for a ministry out there. We were encouraged to use our gifts and talents in creative ways in order to serve the community.
One of the things that I was so interested in doing is taking this gift that I had noticed, meant so much to just a normal client, or a normal person, or a normal friend, and take it to those who might need it even more; those who were facing adversity in their life, homelessness, maybe they were in a drug rehab program, alcohol abuse centers. Then I eventually started working with victims of human trafficking.
I got to meet with the Dream Center in Los Angeles, some people that work there. I’m just a go-getter. I just call people up and say, “Hey, listen. I’ve got this idea. I think this could really be meaningful to the people that you serve. Can I tell you about it?” They said, “Okay. Sure.” I remember meeting with them for lunch and I said, “I can do haircuts, manicures, pedicures, and facials. Very simple services. Is there any way that you feel like this could be a blessing to the women that you're working with, who are either at risk or in recovery, through your program?”
They said, “Okay.” They ended up calling me one day and they said, “We have someone who could use a haircut. Would you be willing to do that?” I said, “Absolutely.” They said, “She has had chunks of her hair ripped out by an abuser.” Obviously, I wanted to take this on and my heart just leapt in my chest wanting to help this woman. We arranged for a friend's salon to be closed on a Sunday, so that no one else would be there at the time. This lady had the opportunity with a volunteer to come in and I got to meet her. She walked in with her head hung low, obviously feeling less than human.
I mean, if you have had such abuse and walked through a situation where pieces of your hair have actually been broken and ripped out, that's how you feel. She walked in and I could tell, it was just all over her face. I welcomed her in and just said, “Man, you've gone through a lot. Let's get you taken care of.” She sat down. Within 45 minutes, I blended in the broken spots and gave her a little bit shorter layered haircut that she absolutely loved. I watched her go from feeling so down, to then jumping up and down, loving the way that she looked, crying, laughing, hugging me, and just changed. She felt new about herself.
In that time, I also got to hear her story. That was a story of manipulation. It was a story of coercion, where she had essentially been tricked into a life of being a victim of human trafficking. Luckily at this point, she was in recovery and she was at the beginning of that journey. I realized that I had been able to be a very simple, but incredibly powerful part of her, believing something new about herself, stepping into the worth that I felt like, God wanted her to know.
I said, “Okay. This is all I ever want to do.” We got to figure out, how can I just do this all the time? Because this is what I’m created for. What joy, what passion, and what opportunity to make a difference in the lives of those who needed it the most.
[00:12:54] JR: I love it so much. You have this moment. You're like, “This is it. I want to put all my eggs in this basket.” Figuring out how to get from there to a self-sustaining model to be able to practice that craft full-time is tough. It's not easy. Kyle, what's the story from there? Lorin has this experience. She probably comes home, is like, “This is the only thing I want to do.” How did you guys get to the point where you're like, “Oh, MISSIO Hair, this for-profit.” You guys are for-profit, correct?
[00:13:20] KVZ: We are. Yes.
[00:13:21] JR: Yeah, so this for-profit business could be the vehicle for making this happen. How'd that happen?
[00:13:25] KVZ: Yeah, and that's just it. I think we've been in ministry. We've worked for non-profits. Like you had a political background as well. I’d always been experimenting with and exploring the best vehicles for the mission of God. Really, I was on a journey myself, really learning more and more about how Jesus is on mission in this world and how we as the church, as his people, are called to participate in that.
We'd run into a few roadblocks here and there vocationally with how to best do that as her calling is unfolding and how as mine is unfolding as well. I was just really learning from a few friends about how effective and widespread and sustainable a for-profit business can be for the mission of God.
One of my friends, of course, in the business world, he talked about many bottom lines. He was starting a double-bottom-line investment company and he taught me so much about how to create a really strong company, a great brand, something with a strong return on investment, while also, equally measuring the tangible impact that you're making.
This was all going through my mind and my heart as we're really looking at creatively leveraging our calling and our influence. Like you say, for the glory of God and for the good of others. As Lorin was coming home and sharing these things with me as even Mark, Lorin's original mentor, the stylist at the salon, he really encouraged us to one day he said, “Why don't you guys actually build a hair product line to support these efforts?” I think we were sitting in a Chipotle when we talked about that.
We were floored, by the way, because all this was going on and we're like, “Can we really start a hair product company? Is that even possible?” He's like, “If other people can do it, you can do it.” He really gave us the courage. He was in that situation, somewhat of a Barnabas for us, somebody who really launched us into dreaming about this. Of course, many, many things had to happen before we could actually get there.
This was a dream that – a seed that was planted. Over several years, it kept on coming back. I believe that God speaks with quiet persistence sometimes. It was one of those things that just kept on coming to the forefront of our minds. We realized too that it wasn't going to be easy. It was going to be more of an all-in approach. It would help Lorin and I realize a dream of being a really, just a strong team vocationally and with our family. We have two young girls, so it would have to be one of those things, where we just really go all-in together in every aspect of our lives.
We just had the dream. We started to build out a business plan. We saw what it needed to take. We had to put it to the side for a couple years and again, it kept on coming back until one day, or one year, we found the resources, an angel investor came along to really get this going and we jumped all in.
[00:16:22] JR: I love it. One of the things I love about your story – By the way, do you guys know Dave Blanchard at Praxis?
[00:16:28] KVZ: Yes. I’m very familiar with Praxis.
[00:16:31] JR: Yeah. I love Dave. I love the team there. I love what they do. Dave talks a lot about this idea of impact market fit. I think you guys are a really good example this. Traditional entrepreneurs are used to product market fit. You begin with questions about whether or not there's a market going to buy a particular product. Impact market fit starts with the impact that you want to have in the world, the impact that you believe God is calling you to make in the world, and then asking questions about okay, well, what product is going to help me achieve that? What business model is going to help me achieve that? It's what you guys did. You're like, “Oh, we can use hair to restore these women. We can use hair to spot these women and help get them out of the sex trade.” A product is basically a Trojan Horse to doing that. I love it. You guys are such a terrific – one of the best examples I’ve ever heard of this.
Lorin, I’m curious. You guys are building a great company but, as you know, you got to get so many things right in order to build a great business. You got to find capital. You got to find angel investors in a business like yours. You got to get the product right and the marketing right and the team right. What are you guys disproportionately good at in that equation? What do you feel like your team has really gotten right?
[00:17:47] LVZ: Wow. Well, with what you just said, I thought about that from the beginning with products. I knew that having been a hair stylist that had worked for years and years with all sorts of top brand products, of luxury products, I knew that if we were going to do this and it was going to have any weight in the world and be able to make the difference that we would like to make, it had to be good. People had to want to buy it just as much, if not more than what they already had.
I as a hair stylist needed to be able to sit it on my shelf and believe in it just as much as everything that I had ever used, working in really nice hair salons. To be honest, I was doubtful upfront that we were going to be able to create something that was good enough to fulfill that vision and that purpose.
[00:18:44] JR: How'd you do that?
[00:18:45] LVZ: Oh, yeah. Kyle on the other hand thought, “Hey, if somebody else can do it, we can do it.”
[00:18:51] JR: Why not me?
[00:18:52] LVZ: Oh, absolutely. He ended up doing a lot of the research, figuring out how do people do this? Working with cosmetic chemists. What does a manufacturer of a hair product look like? What are our options? What are our timelines? He figured out a way in which we could start interviewing with companies and meeting people and learning more about the process. We found an awesome manufacturer in the US, who has been able to hold our hands through the process and say, “Hey, we see your vision for this.”
I was able to actually meet with them and tell them every dream that I had and how I wanted every single thing to work. We started on the R&D process for about six items and we would start sampling back and forth. I laid out the landscape for what I wanted this to look like, what I wanted it to smell like. I got to go to a actual fragrance house, where they put out all these little blue bottles of all these different beautiful fragrances and we got to mix and decide what it is that we wanted them to smell like. We had an intensive time of sampling.
I would take my clients, my friends, our neighbors, other hair stylists and get these samples in their hands, whether it was fragrances, or a new shampoo, or a styling spray and say, “I want you to take this. I want you to rate it on a scale from one to 10.” I wouldn't compromise for anything under a nine consistently coming back to me in terms of how they smelled, and how they worked on people's hair, for certain hair types.
[00:20:35] JR: I love that not settling for anything less than nines. I talk about this a lot when it comes to choosing a vocation and choosing hires, settling for sevens and eights in people decisions are never worth it. The same thing is true with products. There's a lot of wisdom there.
[00:20:50] KVZ: I would I would add that Lorin is disproportionately good at knowing what her customer wants. She had individual people in mind with every single product that we built. She had their hair in mind. She had stylists in mind, because that's so much a part of our business is making sure we equip and empower stylists.
We provide this vehicle, not only for us and our calling, but also the salon community around the country. She was always thinking about the people using it, the people selling it. I would say, she's just disproportionately good at really knowing what others want.
[00:21:26] JR: Yeah, but part of that, you alluded to something that I think is really important that I want our listeners to hear. Having specific customers in mind can help you be disproportionately good at that. Not just saying, “Oh, people who come to my hair salon, like having specific names.” I’m writing my next book right now and I’m looking at right now on my wall in my office, I have 12 pictures of people that fall into three buckets of people that I’m writing this book for. I’m writing for 12 very, very specific people for this book, so there's a lot of wisdom there.
[00:22:00] KVZ: I love it.
[00:22:01] JR: Hey, Kyle. You guys were selected as one of 90 out of I don't know, 800 something businesses, I think it was, that were featured at Chip and Joanna Gaines's Magnolia Market at The Silos in Waco. I’m curious, going out there working with their team, what lessons you learned about what it takes to build a truly great business, from observing the Gaines’s incredible empire up close and personal.
[00:22:25] KVZ: Wow. Yeah, what an honor was to be able to go and to attend Spring at the Silos, well back in 2019. Then we were there this year all set up ready to go again in 2020 when we had the shut down because of the COVID pandemic and pack up and go home. It was so sad, but we love Magnolia. We look up to Chip and Joanna Gaines so much as a husband and wife team. What they've built is so phenomenal.
I would say that the thing that I look at the most, when I see what they have created, is just the authenticity, the authenticity of their brands, their story that really shines through everything that they do and how they genuinely care for people and genuinely want to provide a great experience, from A to Z, through their brand.
I think one of the things that I’ve learned over the years as we've been building MISSIO is authenticity cuts through the noise. I think that they do such a good job of that. Man, I just want to be best friends with Chip. He’s one of those guys I want to hang out with a lot, but I think that was probably the main takeaway. Of course, just being there, I don't know, the environment is just so uplifting. I just think that there's a lot of depth, a lot of thought, a lot of work that has gone through that. Their team is amazing. The people who work for them are just so talented and that just says a lot about the culture that they've created.
[00:23:48] JR: It reminds me of the Covey book, The Speed of Trust, which is really about how trust is the force multiplier within an organization. I think that's also true of brands, increasingly so. When there's so much content, there's so much competition, there's so many products, the most authentic trustworthy brands are going to win. That's what you guys are building at MISSIO.
Hey, Lorin. We talk on the podcast a lot about daily habits and routines. You guys have two young girls. I have three young girls. I know life is crazy. I’m curious, what does your day look like? From the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, what's the tick-tock of your day?
[00:24:24] LVZ: Yes. My goal, when I’m at my best, has been to fit everything in, but to be really reasonable about it. I think, if I was to decide that okay, the perfect day means that I am working out for a whole hour every single morning. That for me, honestly right now, is just not realistic. It's about having a lot of grace, but also trying to fit in the things that I know that I need, in order to stay disciplined, in order to keep routines, in order to prioritize the important people in my life and also myself.
Getting up and just doing some active movement in the morning. That might be just running a few laps around my neighborhood, or doing a stretch routine, or a small workout, short. I mean, I’m talking 15 minutes if I can squeeze it in, that is good. I’m going to consider it gold. Then drinking a lot of water. This is something that I ended up gaining of a lot of respect for Rachel Hollis and I enjoy a lot of her content that she's put out there, especially for business leaders and women entrepreneurs.
One of the things she talks about is drinking water. We have the tendency to potentially be very dehydrated and that can show itself in a lot of different ways. You can feel hungry. You can feel tired. You can feel like you don't have the highest brain function, all these things. It might be just because you're not drinking enough water. That's one thing that I’ve started to become really big about and making sure that I’m doing throughout the day, especially if you're paranoid with a few cups of coffee.
I obviously love journaling, praying, spending time with God in the mornings as well. Same grace surrounding that. If it can be 10 to 15 minutes reading Jesus’ calling, or another short devotion, love it. In fact, I have to say this little side note, but the way we got introduced to you was because I actually found your devotion on the Bible app, the Called to Create.
[00:26:30] JR: I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah.
[00:26:32] LVZ: It was so inspiring to me and I enjoyed reading through that actually, with a group of businesswomen that I meet with, and just loved it, gained so much from it. That even bite-size opportunity to be centered, to be inspired, to be connected to God and then to go about our day, which, yes, it can be crazy. We are carrying a lot. My to-do list is never done. It's almost laughable. I have this –
[00:27:04] JR: Yeah, never. No.
[00:27:05] LVZ: - printed out note on my – I keep a note on my iPhone and then I literally print it out at the beginning of each day and check it off, because I love that paper pencil check box.
[00:27:17] JR: I like that idea of making the digital to-do list finite for a day. That's interesting.
[00:27:22] LVZ: It's finite for a day. What happens is I print it out on Monday and then it's supposed to be my Monday to-do list and it's usually done by Friday. You know what? There's got to be a lot of grace in there too, because the opportunities that we have – I mean, we have to be interruptible. Listen to a previous podcast you did and it was wonderful about the being and doing matrix. It's just that. Who we are at work, who we are being, especially as our heart is to love on the most vulnerable.
I mean, we even had a homeless lady that showed up last week in our office. Do you think I’m going to keep checking off my to-do list, instead of spending time with her? No. We're going to stop. We're going to talk to her. We're going to share who we are, what we do, find out her needs and lo and behold, you know what? She's looking for a place to sleep where people aren't going to take advantage of her. She was a victim of human trafficking, that God sent to our door at our office. It's that mentality of being able to be interruptible, even in the moment.
We also have a private studio salon, where we work with those women. We want them to be able to come in at any point in time. In terms of yeah, just the day-to-day rhythm. Then once we're at work, we actually split our time during the days. There's usually only one at max, two days that Kyle and I both are in the office at the same time fully, because we flip-flop and we spend time with our children.
Now mostly, this has been carved out during COVID-19, because we had no other choice. However, it's been interesting, because it's it is something that has really suited our family well, allowed us both time with the kids, allowed us both time at home to share responsibilities there. It might be one person is speaking in front of a group of people and one person's at home cooking dinner. One person has got the kids and then we switch and you're diving into redesign of a part of our website, or taking care of wholesale customers, things like that.
Kyle and I also really work to – we have to communicate so much and make plans for our weeks, for our days and just figure out how to honor the most important things and then to fit it all in with a whole bunch of grace on the side.
[00:29:44] JR: Yeah. That's really important. Kyle, I’m curious. When you guys get home from the office at the end of the day, do you guys talk about work?
[00:29:54] KVZ: Yes. Yeah, we do. Too much. That's one of the things that we're always working on. We need to be more intentional about turning it off. I think we've gotten better at it for the most part.
[00:30:04] JR: Yeah, but you know what? Can I speak up in your defense for a second? My wife and I work together. My wife serves part-time as the CFO for Jordan Raynor and Company, and we've worked together for a long time. Yeah, I don't know. A lot of people tell you, “No work talk when you get home.” I just don't buy it. Number one, I want my kids to hear me talking about work and the good God-given gift of work and what we're doing to help accomplish his purposes in the world.
Also, I don't know, it's just not possible to turn it off. I like unpacking things with Kara and talking about – talking to you – tonight I’m sure at dinner, we're going to be talking about this amazing conversation. I want her to hear that. I want my kids to hear that. If I don't talk about it at nighttime, when the heck am I going to talk about it? I’m defending you.
[00:30:56] KVZ: Thank you. I appreciate that. I think it's how we talk about it. I think that's very important. I think that there is some really cool times to really wrap things up and that's one thing we try to do. We try to wrap it up. We don't want it to be so all-encompassing that it takes us away from our kids. I agree. I think one of the reasons we launched out all in with MISSIO was to show our kids what it means to live on mission with Jesus in creative ways.
That has been so cool. I think we launched when Reagan, our four-year-old girl, when she was one. She's known nothing but Lorin and I working together as owners of a business, as entrepreneurs, living this life of really both being present at home with them, while also really working hard at this business. That's been a really neat thing. It's neat to see our rising fourth grader, or our eight-year-old, Leila. It's really cool to hear her talk to her friends and to her teachers about what we do and how we sell shampoo, but we also help people.
It's really neat to do that. A lot of that stuff is caught. It's just sometimes, we have to really work on how we talk about it, because it can be really stressful.
[00:32:08] JR: Oh, yeah. What an amazing gift you're giving your kids. I love it. Hey, Kyle. I want to ask you something else. You guys are executing this against just this massive goal, to ultimately be a piece of the puzzle of ending human trafficking. As Christians, we know that that work probably isn't going to be done until Jesus comes back. There will come a day when people will not be sold for sex. Evil will be eradicated. We will dwell on the new earth with Jesus, the king.
How does that future certain hope shape your perspective on the work you're doing right now?
[00:32:46] KVZ: Oh, that is everything. That is absolutely everything. I think everything we do has to be done through the lens of eternity, or else, it's going to drive us crazy, because we're going to realize we're not accomplishing anything. I think, yeah, already living into that victory and seeing our work not as really something so much to accomplish, but just a way to participate with Jesus and the work that he's already done and is doing.
We get to be a part of that. In fact, the name MISSIO really came from just me learning and being convicted so much about, not really convicted, but inspired by this concept of MISSIO day, God's redemptive mission in this world. As we were looking at names and other things, we love the concept of this – MISSIO is Latin for mission. We love the concept of mission, but that has a militant connotation to it, where MISSIO has that redemptive idea to it.
This is our expression. This is our way, our means, as a couple, really combining our gifts combining our vision and our abilities to participate in His mission in this way. At the end of the day though, yeah, we're going to – we've already seen some incredible work done through it. If MISSIO wraps up tomorrow when it's all done, it will have been worth it, because we have already made eternal investments into the lives of others. That's really the way we see it.
Growing up, my parents were really involved in addressing the orphan crisis in Eastern Europe. I remember, my mom, she is one of the most compassionate women. She just wants to fight for people in need. She's such a justice warrior. She wants to fight for those who have no voice and she just loves children so much. I remember one day as a young child, my mom just in our living room just in tears, because there are too many children out there for her to help. That really just struck me. I just really remember seeing that desire to help all of them, but then also realizing that there's really no way that we can. I mean, Jesus says the poor will always be with you.
That's where again, resting in the victory of Jesus and seeing everything that we do in this world through the lens of eternity and the victory. That's really the only way we can do that and that's a daily reminder. It's because sometimes, these tasks and all the things going on in the world right now are just so daunting. Thankfully, we ride on the shoulders of a savior who's already taken care of all of it.
[00:35:18] JR: I love what you said. I love how you said it. Resting in the victory of Jesus. I think as entrepreneurs with these massive visions of what we could accomplish, to participate with Jesus as He's on mission in the world, it can seem overwhelming because we realize we're all going to die with unfinished symphonies. All of us. None of our to-do lists are going to be accomplished.
In 1st Corinthians 15:58, Paul promises that our work somehow, post-death, is not in vain if it's being done in and through the spirit. If it's on God's to-do list, I’m going to die and he's still going to finish the work and he's going to get the glory. It reminds me of what John the Baptist said like, “I am not the Christ. I don't have to finish this to-do list. I don't have to finish this project. This venture doesn't have to reach the vision that I have for it, because if Christ wants it done, it's going to get done on his timeline. Blessed be the name of the Lord.”
Lorin, how do you remind yourself of that? What are some of those practical things that you do to remind yourself that you're not the Christ?
[00:36:22] LVZ: Absolutely. Well, from day one, this is great work, but we're not defined by it. No matter what it is that we're doing, seeing success personally, it would be a disservice if it was to us, if it was wrapped up in how much we profited for the year as MISSIO. I mean, this is just God's. Our life is His. We are living and waking up today and answering what it is that He's asking us to do, and putting our hands to the work that's right in front of us.
If for some reason it was done tomorrow, that would be okay and that wouldn't be a reflection on who Kyle is, and who I am, as his children. I think, a lot of what gives me a lot of confidence and a lot of willingness to go big and to be in the spotlight and to be pursuing something really significant is because I don't feel defined by it. I know that I’m worthy, I’m loved, I am a child of God no matter what.
Even if we were to see something that didn't work well, or some failure, it doesn't define us. I think that perspective is also really freeing to other entrepreneurs, because I’ll talk to – we'll have interns, or others that'll come in here that we have the gift of being able to spend some time with and speak into their situations. Sometimes they'll be so stressed about the success, or failure of their next venture, or if they make the right decision with their stuff out of college, or whatever. I’m like, “Well, you know what? You're going to learn something from it no matter what happens and that's not going to define who you are as a person and what you are called to. Keep going.”
I do think that that's a large part of why we're willing to do something at such a significant scale. Then, we also have this card that is worth mentioning, that we originally – it's a little one and a half by three business card, or whatever the dimensions are. Just a little business card size. It says, “You are loved. You are needed. You are beautiful. You are not alone.” This card we created originally to put in these stores and salons that carry our products, and to be able to allow a woman, if they ever thought that someone was in need, to be slipped to this card, a hair stylist or someone to be able to share this card with someone else, and to give them that message of encouragement, perhaps even to write the phone number for a local hotline, or organization that could connect them with help.
What's so cool is that message is something that has been utilized in so many greater ways. It means so much to every single person that receives it in a box, that sees it at a store, that we pass it to. We even have them in our own windows and car mirrors, just to remind ourselves this essentially is God's message to you, no matter what. We want women all over to know that that they are worthy, they're loved, needed, beautiful and not alone. We want our hair products to be able to carry that message forward.
[00:39:52] JR: I love how practically you guys are living out the mission of Jesus Christ in the world. What's not on that card is a gospel track, right? Listen, I talk about this on the podcast a lot, should we share the gospel? Of course. But we have made sharing the gospel the only and ultimate thing in the western church, I think to a great detriment to the neighbors that we're called to serve, to the women you are called to serve, to the orphans we are called to serve.
When we act as if saving souls, which by the way, Jesus barely talked about in the gospels, is the ultimate, or only thing, you sacrifice social justice. You sacrifice being on mission with Christ in this world. Kyle, have you thought about that? You guys have such a practical bent. I got to imagine these thoughts have at least rolled around your head a few times.
[00:40:44] KVZ: Yeah, these are things that we've been wrestling through for long before our work with MISSIO. Just as our calling is unfolding, really you go all the way back to college and as we're just growing in our faith and as we're learning what our contribution looks like, while also trying to put ourselves in the position of the hearer, or the person that we're interacting with. I think that a lot of what drives us is just this idea of compassion. I mean, you look at the church in America and gosh, we all know that there have been a lot of bridges burned and sometimes, the message, the gospel message hasn't really come through through certain techniques
I think that sometimes simplifying it. When you look at the life of Christ, when you look at what he called us to do and how he called us to live and you talk about it in your most recent book too, just really bringing glory, loving the Lord our God and loving our neighbor, really breaking it down to the simple things like that. The idea of compassion is you want to always make sure that you are putting yourself in the position of the hearers.
I’ve even heard, sometimes it's the deepest form of compassion is entering into somebody else's suffering with them. Sitting with them in that, whether that is human trafficking, somebody who's been exploited, or maybe somebody who's just been hurt by the church. It's rather than coming at them with listen to what I have to say, or I’m going to tell you what to do to make your life feel better, I don't think that that's what Jesus did. I think he went and sat.
[00:42:16] JR: No, serve, serve first, share a second. Listen, we should share the gospel. First and foremost, we should just serve people compassionately and serve them through the ministry of excellence, it’s what you guys are doing. Hey, Lorin. I want you to talk about something, when you were talking about that first story of doing that woman's hair, she's coming in with her head hung low, she's leaving with her head held high and with joy on her face, just to me I’m like, “Oh, man. What a beautiful picture of redemption at a micro-scale.”
There was this thing that was broken that you brought light to, that you brought some means, even if temporary of redemption too. Do you see hair and this process and what you guys are doing as a means of, I don't know, a little parable of redemption?
[00:43:05] LVZ: Yes, absolutely. We've created some belief statements for our company and these are five things that we believe. That is hope. We believe in restoring hope where it's been lost. Beauty. We believe that beauty can be used for creativity, connection and encouragement, like you're speaking about. Impact, we believe in creating opportunities for people to make a difference and an impact in the world. We're inspiring, and we're equipping, and we're coaching, and training, and creating opportunities for people to do that, and to follow us as we essentially follow Jesus and what he's done.
Purpose, we believe that everyone is valuable, created on purpose and with purpose. Then education. We believe that education can empower people and inspire change. I thought that sharing those things with you would be valuable to you, also understanding the tenets that MISSIO values as well in our work.
We also have a video that was our launch video and it narrates through the story. At one point in time, there's a picture of me actually bending down and washing the feet of someone who, of course, was standing in to represent a victim of human trafficking. As I bend down and wash that person's feet and the act of placing yourself lower than someone who is potentially at one of the lowest points in their life is such a powerful picture. No matter how familiar someone is with the backstory, or with the story of Jesus and how that's essentially how he positions himself and did with everyone around him, just seeking to be a servant.
What's so cool is that picture right there is incredibly meaningful to so many people. We will have conversations, in fact, a few weeks ago, there was a hair stylist that called and she'd been up all night the night before, because at first she'd been praying for a product company that cared about the things that she cared about. She ended up coming across MISSIO and watching that video. Then just telling me, “When I saw you do that, I saw Jesus. I am so excited. I can't believe what it is that you've launched into the world. I can't wait to be a part. I can't wait to hear more. Tell me all the things. I’m ready to dive in.”
It's so neat to model and just to live into these gifts, and this calling, and this service, that not only – it doesn't always even require words. To let people view that, and see that, and be moved by that, and to invite them to be a part of that story, and to uncover the layers of the why, and to get to know us. That's so meaningful. That was probably one of the best memories that I have from the past couple of months as well.
[00:46:31] JR: What a beautiful story. All I’m thinking about right now is I can't wait till my girls are old enough to listen to this episode. This is something I’m really going to treasure. Thank you, guys, so much for sharing it. Hey, guys. You've listened to the podcast, you know we wrap up every conversation with three questions. Feel free to whoever wants the answer go for it, maybe both of you.
First and foremost, which books do you guys tend to give away most to others, or recommend most frequently to others?
[00:46:55] LVZ: Yeah. There is one that I have often passed to people that work with us, for people who have a heart to serve, especially believers. It's called Friendship at the Margins. I don't know if you've ever heard of it? It was actually written by some people through Duke Divinity School and I believe, InterVarsity Press. It basically talks about how anyone that's faced adversity, anyone in a marginalized situation, can see through why you're spending time with them.
If you have an agenda, they can smell it a mile away. That the true change and truly helping them can only come from this place of being willing to enter in and become their friend. That's it. I mean, it goes so well into all these concepts and a lot of stories surrounding this and the journey of people really understanding this. I remember being so encouraged and changed by this, because I’d grown up doing all sorts of mission work and in ministry and in church and all of this and always drawn to helping people in lots of different ways, but realizing that the only way and the most powerful, impactful way that you can help them is by getting in the trenches with them, by doing whatever it takes to see them as an equal, to see them as a friend, and then allow your actions to flow from there.
[00:48:34] JR: That's beautiful. I got to read this book. What's the name of it again?
[00:48:37] LVZ: It's called Friendship at the Margins. Yeah, I can send you a link to it.
[00:48:42] JR: Yeah, and we'll make sure we add it. We add all these books to jordanraynor.com/bookshelf to make it super easy for people to find it. Kyle, do you have a book recommendation, something that you give away a lot?
[00:48:54] KVZ: Yeah. Well, of course a lot of books. I love so many books. One of the books I actually read, I went to seminar, I went to grad school at Fuller, and there was one book that was so striking to me that it's a little bit deeper. It has a lot of pretty academic content, but it's called Walking with the Poor by Bryant Myers.
It was such a life-changing book for me to understand poverty and to understand poverty around the world as a spiritual issue. Then to really begin to explore, what he calls the poverty of the non-poor, recognizing that all of us, regardless of our situations, or upbringing, or circumstances, because of sin nature in this world, the root of all poverty is lack of sense of identity, which rich and the poor deal with, and a lack of sense of vocation or purpose.
That really reframed my understanding of my contribution to helping people in this world and to the mission of Jesus in this world. That's another one that I’ve really read that gave me a very comprehensive outlook on things.
[00:49:54] JR: That's good. I like that. Who would you guys most like to hear on this podcast, talking about how the Christian faith influences their work in the world?
[00:50:02] KVZ: Chip and Jo.
[00:50:03] JR: Yeah. That's a great terrific answer. That's a terrific answer. All right, we'll work on Chip and Jo. All right. Lastly and whoever wants to take this could take it, one piece of advice to leave this audience? A lot of them entrepreneurs, a lot of them not, but what they share is this deep ambition to do great work for the glory God and the good of others. What do you want to leave them with?
[00:50:25] KVZ: I love this idea and I think something that has really affected me recently is recognizing that we have all been given something and we're all stewards of something, whether we've earned it, or whether we are born with certain sets of gifts. All of us one day are going to be standing, if we're following Jesus, we're going to be standing in front of him with empty pockets and no title. He's going to say, “What did you do with what I gave you?”
I just really feel like, all of us, the best way to be an entrepreneur is just to leverage the gifts that he has given you, to be a good steward of what he's given you. Then when you realize that, to jump in, be patient and be persistent. Yeah, again, God is so much more concerned in what he's doing in you than what he's doing through you. Don't get so tied up in the ebbs and flows and the ups and downs of the journey.
Just recognize that he is with you and he's going to accomplish great things through and with you.
[00:51:24] JR: That's really, really well said. Guys, I just want to commend you for the incredible, redemptive work you guys do every single day. Thank you for allowing the Lord to work through you, in such a really innovative way to fight evil in the world. Thank you for your commitment to the ministry of excellence and everything you guys create and how you treat your clients, your customers. I’m just so grateful for you guys.
Hey, I know all of you guys are trying to figure out how you can be involved in what MISSIO is up to. Head over to missiohair.com and you can find out. That's M-I-S-S-I-O-hair.com. Lorin and Kyle, thank you so much for being here.
[00:52:05] KVZ: Jordan, thank you so much.
[00:52:07] LVZ: It has been a pleasure and thank you for being a part of our work as well, because we've truly been inspired and encouraged by Called To Create and Master Of One. Absolutely.
[00:52:19] JR: You're so kind. Thank you, guys, so much.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:52:23] JR: Guys, I can't encourage you enough to get involved in what MISSIO is doing in the world and what the Lord is doing through them. I hope you guys loved this episode of the podcast. If you did, take 30 seconds and go leave a review of the podcast, so that more people can find this content.
Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in to The Call To Mastery. I’ll see you next week.
[END]