How to isolate the lies in your head
How being faithful to God cost Holly in her career (and why that’s a good thing), how to isolate and attack the lies in your head, and how our peace at work can make space to bear others’ burdens at work.
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[0:00:05.4] JR: Hey friend, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast, I’m Jordan Raynor. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians, those of us who aren’t pastors or religious professionals but who work as medical assistants, pastry chefs, and marine biologists? That’s the question we explore every week and today, I’m posing it to Holly Kim, the director of marketing and operations at Credibly.
Holly and I sat down to talk about how being faithful to God and her career cost her in her career and why that’s a good thing. We talked about how to isolate and attack the lies that satan is feeding you in your head, and we talked about how our peace at work can make space to bear others' burdens in our work and give chances to share the gospel. You are not going to want to miss this short, terrific episode with my new friend, Holly Kim.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:03.2] JR: Hey, Holly Kim, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast.
[0:01:06.2] HK: Thank you so much for having me.
[0:01:07.2] JR: Yeah, it’s a joy to have you. We love having long-time listeners, first-time callers on this show. So, hey, let’s start out with your company. Just to get a little bit of context, what is this business that you work for called Credibly? What do you guys do?
[0:01:20.8] HK: Yeah, so, Credibly is a small business financing company, we provide small business owners with who might not qualify for, you know, traditional bank loans, who might have lower credit because maybe they had difficulty in the past with finances with business financing, so that they can build their business.
[0:01:36.5] JR: I love it, and we should state at the top of this episode to appease all the attorneys that Holly is speaking for herself personally, and not for Credibly, correct, Holly?
[0:01:46.3] HK: Yes, correct.
[0:01:47.4] JR: Checked the legal requirements off, great. All right, so, tell us a little bit about your role. What does your day-to-day look like within the business?
[0:01:54.4] HK: Yeah. So, I am currently the marketing director at Credibly. So, we have a small-ish team of five. So, a lot of times, it’s all hands on deck, so my day could go from really high-level strategic calls to you know, being an RCRM and just creating workflows myself, and I think a lot of my time is also spent with my direct reports and just in one on ones with them.
[0:02:15.4] JR: Yeah, that’s good. All right, so lots of meetings, lots of CRM management and spreadsheets and emails, very similar to the day-to-day to so many of our listeners, and hey, like, that could be tough. It could be tough in the day-to-day grind to see the sacredness of that seemingly secular work, to remember that that work matters to God, even in the mundane. What has you convinced personally that God does care about the work that you're doing at Credibly or any other company?
[0:02:45.4] HK: Yeah, I love this question because I struggled with this very for a really long time and I think as a foundation, you know, there is a lot of scripture that just talks about this in the Bible. You know, He created us to work in the garden, we see Him use ordinary workers just all throughout scripture, and He calls us to do excellent work in the Bible. I think in like, the experience sense of how I truly felt this to be true in my life, I just see it in a way that He shows up in like, the smallest of ways when I’m working.
Like, if I’m really nervous for a big meeting and I am on my knees in prayer and asking, “God, like, can you please help me to speak the words that need to be said in this meeting?” He truly does show up in a way that I know it’s Him because I did not have those words to say before the meeting. So, I think, in those like small ways, I just see that God really cares about like, the work that we do, how we do it, and the impact that we have.
[0:03:38.7] JR: I always ask in pre-interviews for the show how the gospel shapes how you do what you do professionally because I think, listen, providing loans for businesses, I think it’s pretty clear to see how God would delight in that work but the reason why I invited you on the show is because I love this story you shared about this experience early on in your career, where you were tempted to join your colleagues in some unethical business practices.
Obviously, please don’t share the details on where you were working, or anything, or whatever, but I’d love for you to take us into that story and into that temptation, and take your time with this. Tell us what was going on here.
[0:04:12.6] HK: Yeah. So, this was very early in my career. I had just graduated from college, was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and I was coming from a place where I was really, like, I had idolized my career for such a long time, and I was so excited to finally get out into the working world and you know, start making my own money, start making a name for myself, and I think, the company that I ended up in, I think it was probably mostly one department that really struggled with this.
They had particularly low morale and there was just a habit of a little bit of dishonesty, especially, in terms of reporting some activities and numbers that the team was working on, and I think the general attitude toward that at the time was kind of like, it’s just what you did. You know, everyone knows what the game is and you just play the game until you were – you got promoted or moved on to something else.
So, I think there was a sense of, “It’s okay to fudge these numbers a little bit, just because, you know, everyone knows.” So, I think at first, I also just played along because you know, it’s not lying if everyone knows that they’re being lied to, right? That’s what I thought, that’s how I justified this. So, I think – but there was a moment as I was kind of pursuing my faith a little bit more seriously when God started to really convict me because the Bible is pretty clear that – I mean, lying is a sin, and whether people knew that they were being lied to or not, it didn’t really matter to God that –
[0:05:37.5] JR: Yeah, that’s irrelevant, He knows, right?
[0:05:38.4] HK: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s what to my heart, and like, why I was following along with these practices, and I think the other part that He convicted me of was that like, because you know, bonuses are tied to performance. So, essentially, by me lying about my performance, I was actually stealing from the company, which you know, in my mind, I was like, “Lying, you know, it’s a sin, it’s bad.”
But like, stealing, that’s another level bad, which I know that’s not like, the way that it works but that’s how it was in my mind at the time. I think that’s what really caught me, and you know, I think at the root of like, these temptations to kind of follow along with these more dishonest practices was just a lot of pride. I didn’t want to look like I was doing worse than some of my colleagues on the team, and that was also tied to like, my perception of my own identity because you know, I just came from a background of like, if I worked really hard.
And achieved all of these things, then, you know, I am someone who is a high performer and that was really important to me, and so if I lost that, if I was the lowest performer on the team, like, one, “Who am I?” But also, I could also be fired, what is going to happen to the future of my career? So, there was a lot of fear around that, and then there was the social aspect of, you know, I was friends with all of my coworkers, and I didn’t want to seem like I was trying to be holier than thou.
[0:06:58.1] JR: Yeah-yeah-yeah. That’s real.
[0:06:58.8] HK: And you know, get that reputation of being like a stickler for the rules or something like that. So, I think those were kind of all the different thoughts that were going on in my head at the time.
[0:07:07.6] JR: Yeah. So, fast-forward, you do make the decision to stand firm in your faith, and I know that cost you, we’re going to talk about how in a minute but backtrack a little bit to that “holier than thou” fear. I think that’s really real, right? Like, I felt that before, like, “Oh, like, I have a conviction around this thing, I want to stand firm for it, but my non-Christian coworkers do not feel a conviction, right?” And they’re, you know? How did you deal with those feelings of, “I’m personally convicted but I don’t want to be seen as holier than thou amongst the team.”
[0:07:38.7] HK: Yeah. I think I just had to boil it down to what’s most important. I think I was really afraid of losing those friends because I just moved to a new city. They were my only, you know, community support at the time. So, it was a little bit scary to think like, “What am I going to do if I lose these people and if I lose their respect and I lose their friendship?” But you know, after a lot of kind of back and forth with God, He just kept boiling it down to, “Well, like, do you not trust that I will provide for you?” And so yes or no answer, like, there’s no like, “Maybe.”
[0:08:09.1] JR: That’s right, that’s right, that’s right.
[0:08:10.7] HK: Yeah.
[0:08:11.1] JR: That’s pretty black and white, right?
[0:08:12.2] HK: Exactly.
[0:08:12.5] JR: Do You trust me or not? Obey today, I’ll take care of tomorrow.
[0:08:15.9] HK: Yes.
[0:08:17.9] JR: So, you told me in our pre-interview that this decision did cost you, I’d love for you to talk about how. How did it cost you?
[0:08:23.6] HK: Yeah, I mean, I think it cost me the things I just mentioned. Like, it cost me, like, my reputation as someone who is a high performer. I think what hurt was that I would work really hard but have the lowest numbers on the team. So, that was a really hard pill to swallow, and probably the first time in my life where like, the effort that I put in didn’t match the outcome. So, that was definitely a difficult lesson to learn.
I think there was you know, the cost of I knew I wasn’t going to be promoted in the next year, that meant that like, you know, if I stayed here, I was going to be prolonging my time in this, you know, in this kind of environment, not really moving on when I saw all of my friends around me moving on to new roles, getting promoted, things like that.
[0:09:07.4] JR: What kept you going during that time? I mean, what was the Lord using to help you persevere in faith when your circumstances were objectively just unjust, right?
[0:09:19.5] HK: Yeah. I think, you know, He convicted me with His word that you know, sin was sin, and I think He uplifted me in His word as well. I remember just reading Matthew four, for like, it was probably the millionth time I’ve read it, but really understanding what Jesus was doing when He, you know, this is when Jesus goes out into the wilderness to fast for 40 days before He starts His ministry, and you know, satan is tempting Him and He just is quoting scripture back at the devil.
And I remember just understanding, like, what it means that the word of God has power to like, defeat these lies because there were so many different lies that were coming into my head, and you know, tempting me to just go with what’s going on but I think what sustained me was proclaiming the truth over my life because you know when darkness, like, sees light, it can’t stand it, it flees, and I think one of the really practical things that I did was like I said, I had all of these thoughts going through my head.
You know, a lot of lies that were like lies and voices in my head of what I should do, and how I should do things. So, I created this Google doc, listed out all of these things that I was hearing, and I grouped them into themes. So, like one of them could be identity because you know, I felt like a failure in the world. One of them could be around like, just fear of not having enough, or like, losing my job or something like that, and under each of those themes, I would write Bible verses that directly contradicted what that line was saying.
So, for example, if the voice in my head was telling me, “You’re a failure because, like, you’re either not achieving, or that you failed to obey God and like, you don’t deserve any of this.” And under that, I would write, you know, read Genesis One and like, read that you were created in the image of God, you know, or like, Psalm 1:39 where it says, “You're fearfully and wonderfully made.” And it feels simple.
But I think, just like, reading those out to myself, and declaring like, “Okay, if God’s word is true, then this has to be true, and therefore, none of these lies can be true.” That was really powerful for me at the time, and any time I was just feeling that like, you know when I felt weary and I felt tired of just resisting and felt tired of like – I felt like I was kind of like holding back the waves at work every single day, I would just kind of pull up this doc, and it would just be such an easy way to remind myself of what’s true.
[0:11:43.1] JR: So good, and I’m a super practical person, right? So, I love stuff like this, and I do find, for me, that the false soundtracks running around my head, the lies that satan would have me believe lose a lot of their power when they are on paper, right? Lose a lot of power when I pull open that Google doc, and just see it in black and white and can refute it in black and white with God’s word.
There is something powerful to literally getting the thing – I mean, I talk about this in Redeeming Your Time, there’s power in getting open loops, things we want to do out of our head and into an external system but I think the same is true for lies, and it sounds like that’s what you experienced, Holly.
[0:12:27.5] HK: Yeah, for sure, and I think it was like, going back to like, it’s a black and white question of like, “Are you going to believe like, what your mind is saying or are you going to believe what God says is true in the Bible?” And you know it’s yes or no. Yeah.
[0:12:41.9] JR: Yeah, but for me, it’s so – if I don’t get it out on paper, right? Or, I don’t mean a literal paper, I use –
[0:12:48.8] HK: Yeah.
[0:12:48.8] JR: Basically, not literal paper, you know what I mean.
[0:12:50.9] HK: Yeah.
[0:12:51.1] JR: It just continues to run around my head and I continue to repeat the lie over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. That’s the beauty of getting it out of that system. Well, Holly, I mean, I hate that this experience cost you. Although, I know that the Lord will reward it in eternity, and maybe even in the present, but this is part of the reason why I wanted to bring you onto the show because there’s a lot of really bad theology in the faith in work space, and in just the Christian space in general.
It’s heavily influenced by the prosperity gospel, and I desperately want our listeners to watch out for. The argument goes something like this, I hear this from people all the time. I’ve heard it from guests on this show, we’ve had to cut out what they say because I think it’s heresy. It says something like this: “Yup, I had to make this decision at work, I was tempted to do this thing, but I stood firm on my faith, and then God blessed that decision,” right?
And they say something like, “And that just goes to show that when you follow God’s ways, He will honor your faithfulness and listen.” By honor, these people are typically talking about financial honor, and the honor of success by the world’s standards, and listen, God might honor you that way, but He might not, right? Like, but whether or not He blesses you is beside the point. The point is obedience, we obey, not because we think that God is a genie who is going to bless us in return. We obey because He is Lord and worthy of our obedience, amen, Holly?
[0:14:21.2] HK: Yeah, amen, amen to that.
[0:14:23.3] JR: Talk more about that.
[0:14:23.6] HK: Yeah.
[0:14:24.3] JR: You’ve had to wrestle with this, you felt the consequences of God not blessing you materially immediately because of this decision, how have you wrestled with that?
[0:14:34.9] HK: Yeah. I mean, I think because, like, this was probably a process that went for a year and a half and I think there was a lot of refinement in that thought process exactly of like, even if I, you know, never get that high-paying job that I wanted, even if I can never because of like, my poor performance here, like in my mind, that felt like such a, like, stigma to myself.
[0:14:56.2] JR: It’s devastating, yeah.
[0:14:58.4] HK: Yeah, and it just felt like, I’m ruining my future, maybe but like, I would have to just bring that to God of like, “God, even, like, I’m obeying you, like, You will provide for me, I know You will provide for me.” And just seeing Him provide for me in that way of like, I’ve never – I never missed rent during that time, like I, you know, was able to like, I continued to tithe during that time, which was difficult because, to me, I wanted to save.
I wanted to build that like, security for myself because I wasn’t sure what the future looked like. Yeah, so, I think, even when I felt like I wasn’t getting, you know, I wasn’t – God wasn’t like pouring out financial abundance on me or like, material provision on me, I was able to experience, yeah, that progression. I think it’s Romans Five that talks about, you know, suffering produces endurance, produces character, produces hope.
And like, that hope at the end of that chain, I was just really able to experience just like, how valuable that is to not be putting my hope and my faith of the future in like, something that is so easily taken away from me but in something that is like eternal and that is lasting and that nobody can touch because who’s going to touch the hope that God gives?
[0:16:09.0] JR: Yeah, oh man, so good. So, something happened to me recently that God’s bringing to mind as you’re talking. I – forgive me if I rambled to this story, but I think it will be an encouragement to you and to our listeners. My wife and I are hanging out with some friends on a Sunday night and we were talking about this mutual friend of ours who is spending their money on things that I would love to spend my money on in this life but have chosen not to because I feel called to spend this life rather than save it.
I feel called to leave it all on the line because this life is a rounding error in the grand scheme of eternity, and I want to steward my wealth for eternal things. The next morning, I was driving to the airport, I don’t cry a ton, although, gosh, I don’t know how long I can say that because the older I get the more I cry. I’m crying a lot these days at age 38, but I am going to the airport and I just broke down crying to the Lord.
I was like, “Lord, I believe, as Hebrews 6:10 says, you’re not unjust, you will not forget my work, and the love I’ve shown you by helping His people and continue to help them. I believe in your promise of eternal rewards but Lord, I look foolish to my friends.” I look like an idiot because I’ve got friends who tell me all the time, “Jordan, you should be spending more money on this, more money on that, more.”
“I look like an idiot. Lord, please, please I know you will keep your promise. Please remind me that you’ll keep your promises.” And so, I pray this prayer, I’m crying on my way to the airport, I land in Southern California, and I forgot that the event organizers, I usually pay for my own hotel when I speak and I stay at like cheap hotels, right? I don’t spend money on those but I land and I forgot that the event organizers put me up in the nicest hotel I’ve ever stayed in, in my life.
It was incredible, it was the Ritz Carlton on Laguna Beach and I walked in and it just was this little moment of God I think saying, “Hey, like I see your faithfulness. I will reward that faithfulness. It won’t always be in this life like this hotel room.” But it was just a tiny reminder that God sees every single act of faithfulness in this life and the blessing in this life is communion with Him, right?
Is abiding with Him and feeling His presence as we obey His commands but there’s also coming eternal rewards that is that relationship but also eternal blessing and rewards and I don’t know, for me, that was a phenomenal encouragement to just keep me going and persevering in the faith and it sounds like you experienced a lot of that encouragement in your own communion with the Lord during this time, Holly.
[0:18:57.0] HK: Yeah, definitely. I think yeah, there is just so much. I think when we, like you know, of course I have desires. I have things that I want in this world but yeah, it definitely – it just doesn’t compare to what the gifts that God gives, and that just fills you up so much more. It fills you up for so much longer.
[0:19:15.7] JR: Yeah, it’s sustainable fuel.
[0:19:18.1] HK: Yes, exactly.
[0:19:18.6] JR: It’s sustainable fuel.
[0:19:19.4] HK: Exactly.
[0:19:20.3] JR: You mentioned before that professional successes beguile for you during this early stage in your career. How did God use this particular situation, right? Where you’re tempted with these unethical business practices, how did He use that situation to reframe your definition of success?
[0:19:35.6] HK: Yeah. I mean, He definitely destroyed what I thought was success.
[0:19:40.8] JR: He obliterated it.
[0:19:42.7] HK: Exactly. I mean, like to me, success was, you know, it was abundance, it was stability, it was independence that looked like, you know, big title, big company name, like earning whatever I thought was enough money, and you know, all of this started to shake. All of these started to look impossible, and you know, I did experience some of that success or what I defined as success at the time.
You know, in the – yeah, I did. It was relatively stable. I did have independence because I had income, but I was still miserable, and like in my mind, that didn’t make sense because I thought these were the things that would bring me happiness. Yeah, over time, and this was, you know, even beyond that particular situation but I think it started here of like, my definition of success started to turn into, “Was I able to do what God told me to do today?”
And I think in this time, it was, “Was I able to live honestly to God’s word today?” And you know in the future, it became as I learned to listen to His spirit and understand like, what He calls us to do in the day to day and work hard and the day to day, my definition of success started to become that, and I don’t want to make it seem like it was super smooth because like I have long-term desires.
I have hopes and visions for what I think I want to do in the future but yeah, which is good, and I think it’s God uses those visions for good but also I’ve learned to be really open-handed with what that future looks like because I think in these processes, I’ve learned that like when we’re obedient to God in the small things, in the little day-to-day things, He’s working like even bigger things beyond that, that we can’t even imagine.
And, it’s brought me to places that I couldn’t have even imagined, taking roles that, like, I never thought was possible, like I never thought I had the skills to lead a team or like that I ever would and yet, here I am, and like I know that that is all by God’s grace, like, and He’s working in me through me and around me and it’s you know, not anything that I did but just because I was – I’ve been trying to follow Him in the day to day.
[0:21:45.9] JR: That’s good, and I love that you say it’s not because of anything you did, right? Like God has blessed your career after that role, but – and maybe, maybe it was tied to your faithfulness in that particular decision, but maybe not, but again, that’s not the point.
[0:22:02.1] HK: Exactly, exactly.
[0:22:04.1] JR: The point is just being obedient and faithful. All right, Holly, I want you to talk to – I’m sure, there’s a listener listening right now, who is tempted to fudge the numbers at work, who is tempted to take advantage of their company’s work-from-home policy, and you know, take care of a lot of personal things during the day when they should be working, whatever it is. What would you say to that listener right now who is facing a similar dilemma to the one you faced early on in your career?
[0:22:38.1] HK: One, I mean, trusting in the promises of God. I guess knowing the promises of God and trusting in them.
[0:22:42.6] JR: There you go, that’s a good start, yeah.
[0:22:44.5] HK: Yeah, and you know, in the Lord’s prayer there, you know, we ask for daily bread to sustain us, and like I think that’s very necessary. Like, every morning just ask for the Holy Spirit to fill you up and to sustain you through this day because that’s – we just need God every single day in every single moment. I didn’t have this at the time but like surrounding yourself with good community who can pray with you, who can keep you accountable as well, and who would be willing to call you out when they see you kind of going in the wrong direction.
And I would also say that, like, remember that God is the God who sees in secret because I think one, a hard part of it is if you feel very alone. It feels like you’re struggling so much but like, no one’s acknowledging what you were doing, no one can see that internal struggle of I’m trying to do the right thing for the Lord, and but God sees you. God sees you in secret and He rewards you, again, in internal rewards.
[0:23:40.2] JR: That’s good, that’s really, really good. Holly, we probably could end this episode right here. That discussion about that just one situation with work was so rich and helpful to our listeners, but I do want to pivot to another way that the gospel’s clearly influencing your work. You mentioned in your pre-interview this example that you’re once on this team that was going through a difficult time and this coworker noticed that you had a unique joy and hope in that trying time.
And they called it out, and it gave you a chance to explicitly share the gospel. As you reflect back on that situation, I’m curious, what were the simple things you did or did not do that you think God used to make you stand out as light in that dark time? Maybe say it another way, like what are the actions that that colleague would have pointed to you to say, “Oh, here is exhibit A, B, and C of what I mean when I said that Holly’s working with joy and hope in a trying time.”
[0:24:44.9] HK: Yeah. I think the root of a lot of it probably came just from that piece beyond understanding that Christ gives us, so that like one thing didn’t go the way that I hoped that they would go, it’s okay, it’s not, you know, my life isn’t ruined. God is greater than these situations, and just to give context around like what was going on, it was like just a time of you know, our team was experiencing a lot of pressure from the company to produce results and to reach certain goals.
And at the same time, we were experiencing a lot of change. Like there were a lot of changes in the organization; we had turnover on the team, so it was just very stressful at the time, and I think what that peace of Christ helped me to do was just to respond in less anxiety because I think you know, any time we had, you know, a review of like what was going on, it would just be so stressful to sit in a room and people tell you like, “This isn’t working, that isn’t working, like what are you going to do to fix it?”
Yeah, I think just the fact that I knew that, you know, whatever happens, everything is in God’s hands. Not that everything is going to turn out perfectly or okay, but it’s in God’s hands, and I think just not responding in panic or anxiety was something that people took note of. Another part of it is just when we have peace in ourselves because of Christ, I think it gives us the bandwidth to listen to people.
And I think that was, just the simple act of being able to sit down and just hear people out because I think when I’m anxious, when I’m panicking, I can’t hear other people’s troubles. I’m just so focused on myself. But when Christ puts that peace in us, we can love people just by hearing their frustrations, being compassionate to them, and finding ways that we can help them out.
Even if it’s like a simple task, taking like one thing off their plate could be what helps them to feel a little bit lighter that day. So, I think those were kind of the things that my coworkers were noticing at that time.
[0:26:46.6] JR: That’s really good. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody articulate it exactly that way that as we dwell on the peace we have in Christ, we are more available to listen to the anxieties of others to help bear those burdens in a way that begs the question why to which Jesus is the only answer, amen?
[0:27:09.2] HK: Exactly, amen, yeah.
[0:27:11.0] JR: Yeah, that’s good. It’s good, Holly, I love that. Hey, all right Holly, as you know we wrap up every episode of the show with the same four questions. Number one, what job would you love for God to give you on the new earth?
[0:27:22.0] HK: Yeah. I love this question, I love like cooking and gathering people. I also – I love organizing things. So, I want to be an event planner for the Lord’s banquets in heaven.
[0:27:32.6] JR: Come on, I love that so much. I’m hoping my friend, Aarti Sequeira, is like cooking is a part of the Lord’s chef team in the kitchen in the Lord’s banquet. I’ve got, like, all these different rules for friends. I’m like, “But God’s got a better role in mind for them.” I love it, that’s a good answer. Hey, if we open up your Amazon order history, what book could we see you purchasing over and over again to give away to friends?
[0:27:54.6] HK: Okay, I had three that I had to write down. One is one of your books actually, Called to Create.
[0:27:59.7] JR: Oh, come on.
[0:28:00.4] HK: That was really, like, yeah, that was very clarifying to me, and I love the practicality of it, so I do recommend that to a lot of my friends who were struggling with, like, career. The other one, I just recently reread, The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, amazing book, very convicting, don’t read it if you don’t want to be convicted.
[0:28:17.0] JR: Yes, seriously. It’s not a light read, not a light read.
[0:28:21.0] HK: No, no but amazing, and then one that I’m reading right now that I’ve been recommending to people is Experiencing God by Claude King and Henry and Richard Blackaby, yeah.
[0:28:31.3] JR: Yeah, oldie but a goodie. Yeah, I was just hanging out backstage at an event with Richard Blackaby and had a chance to thank him again for that extraordinary book, excellent, excellent book. All right, Holly, who would you want to hear on this podcast talking about how the gospel is shaping the work they do in the world?
[0:28:46.7] HK: Honestly, I just have loved like hearing like the stories of, you know, just the average people who are just in their daily walks. I would love, yeah, I would love to continue to hear more of those stories.
[0:28:55.9] JR: The people who don’t have a platform, who don’t have a book, those are my favorite episodes.
[0:28:59.2] HK: Yeah, yeah.
[0:29:00.6] JR: Me too. All right, Holly, you’re talking to this global audience of mere Christians who are doing a lot of different things vocationally. I’m sure there’s a bunch of people with jobs that look very similar to yours, but we’ve got foresters listening and baristas and doctors and surgeons, whatever. What’s one thing you want to reiterate from our conversation that we’ve already had or maybe something new you want to say to those listeners before we sign off?
[0:29:25.5] HK: Yeah, I think I wanted to leave off with Proverbs 3:5-6. It says, “Trust in the Lord with all of your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will make straight your paths.” Yeah, that’s how we need to live our day-to-day, and whatever you’re facing, just, you know, give it to the Lord. I think sometimes we say that as like a placating remark of like, pray about it.
Give it to the Lord; it’s powerful and also that like your faithfulness is not in vain, and whatever you’re going through God sees it, and you might not be able to see what He is doing but He is working all things together for good for those who love and are called to Him. So, yeah.
[0:30:03.9] JR: Amen, amen, so well said. Holly, I want to commend you for the exceptional and faithful work you do for the glory of God and the good of others, for reminding us to stand firm in our faith not to get something from God but in response to what He has already given us through his son, Jesus Christ, i.e. eternal life with Him, right?
[0:30:26.4] HK: Amen, yeah.
[0:30:27.1] JR: So, man, thank you so much for that reminder. Guys, if you want to connect with Holly, you can find her on LinkedIn. Holly Kim, thank you for hanging out with us today.
[0:30:36.0] HK: Thank you so much for having me, Jordan.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:30:38.8] JR: Some of my favorite episodes of this show are episodes like this one, who we just go really, really deep, and with a singular story that clearly reveals how practically the gospel is shaping your work. If you’ve got one of those stories, I want you to let us know, go to JordanRaynor.com/mc, JordanRaynor.com/mc for Mere Christians, you’re going to see a survey there that you can take, and tell me your story, and if I think it would be an encouragement to our listeners, we’ll have you on the show.
That’s what Holly did, she filled out that form, she’s here, and now you’re encouraged by her, you’d be an encouragement to our listeners as well. Let us know your story at JordanRaynor.com/mc. Thank you, guys, for listening. I’ll see you next week.
[END]