The first lawyers, Adam and Eve
Jordan Raynor sits down with Haejin Shim Fujimura, Attorney, to talk about the wild story of how a painting served as a wardrobe-like portal into the Kingdom, seeing Adam and Eve as lawyers before the Fall, and how she sees her work fighting human trafficking AND her work as a civil litigator as Kingdom work.
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[00:00:04] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Every week, I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world-class mastery of their vocation. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits, and how the Gospel of Jesus Christ influences their work.
Today's guest is Haejin Shim Fujimura. If that name sounds familiar, it's because Haejin is the bride of Makoto Fujiwara, who was my guest on the Call to Mastery back in January, one of my favorite episodes of all time of the show. Anyways, Haejin is an attorney who has two high profile roles. First, she's the CEO of Embers International, which serves victims of injustice in India.
Secondly, she's the managing partner of Shim & Associates, where she has successfully litigated over 450 lawsuits on behalf of businesses, very big and very, very small, from startups to publicly traded companies. Haejin and I sat down and we talked about how she sees her work, fighting human trafficking and her work as a civil litigator, as kingdom work. We talked about the wild story of Haejin standing in front of a painting and feeling like she had been transported into another world and given a glimpse of the eternal kingdom of heaven. We talked about why Adam and Eve can be seen as the first lawyers of the world, even before the fall. You guys are going to love this conversation with my new friend, Haejin Shim Fujimua.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:02:02] JR: Welcome to the podcast.
[00:02:04] HSF: Thank you for having me.
[00:02:06] JR: Yeah. We were just talking about having your husband Mako, here a couple of months ago. Honestly, that was one of my favorite episodes of this podcast. It just came out a few months ago, but it's extraordinary. If you're listening, and have not listened to that episode with Makoto Fujimuri. Go listen to that and then come back to Haejin. I was curious, how did you and Mako meet? I don't think I know this story.
[00:02:30] HSF: Oh, my. How much time do we have?
[00:02:33] JR: As much as you want. Go for it.
[00:02:35] HSF: I mean, we have a quite a story about meeting. Mako and I have a lot of mutual friends, a lot, because we went to the same church, unbeknownst to us, of course. How Mako has lived his life as an artist. He was not only an artist, but also an advocate. He started organization called, I Am Culture Care from the 90s. We have a very similar path, because as a lawyer, I have my own legal practice, but I also lead an organization called Embers International. I am an advocate while being everyday lawyer.
We have this very similar track of life and in the midst of that, being in New York City going to the same church in different seasons, but we have this, a lot of mutual friends. I had this training at a Redeemer Presbyterian church in New York City, the church that Tim Keller founded. There's a training called Gotham Fellowship –
[00:03:41] JR: Yeah. I know Gotham well.
[00:03:43] HSF: Great. I was part of that, more than ten years ago, I also TA the following year. So I was in this studio space where we met on a weekly basis for two years. I didn't know whose office space or studio space it was, and it was Mako's studio. So he was painting for holy hospitals in the back while we're meeting in the front side of office, which was used for I Am Culture Care. Didn't know him, didn't know of him, probably somebody told me about him, but he never registered to me in my database.
I met Mako’s art about three years before I met Mako personally. Then by the time I didn't know Mako as an artist either. It really wasn't in my radar. I was in this gallery space in New York City, because the gallery owner asked me to come and speak to these nonprofit leaders who just started their nonprofit work. I was there to provide pro bono counseling to these leaders, which I was happy to do. I love art to begin with. I'll go to Paris just for a day to go to the Louvre.
[00:04:56] JR: Yeah.
[00:04:57] HSF: Art is my language, but I never had that, back then time to just really immerse myself into it, just different season. I was in this gallery space waiting for these people, and I'm standing in front of this painting and it's a giant blue painting. It's a size of entire wall of the gallery space. I remember, and this may sound strange to some of you, which is okay, because we live in this very mysterious world where we see a glimpse of God's glory everywhere. Sometimes we notice this, sometimes we don't.
I'm standing in front of this giant blue painting. I remember walking into that painting, and this is not a metaphorical or analogous expression. It was an actual experience. So in this painting, I met, and it was just initially a blue painting, but in that painting, I saw and met and experienced this beautiful nature, and he looked like a forest. If you have seen Lord of the Rings, there is a forest scene with the walking trees.
[00:06:11] JR: Yeah.
[00:06:12] HSF: It looks like that, but it is not that. It wasn’t in a piece of memory in my database that just was brought out. It wasn't that at all. It was something very new, but I was able to recognize it as a nature. Then there were all these animals, I can recognize them as animals, but I couldn't recognize them. So there were something so new. I hung out there. I play with them. It felt like hours, but I bet it's probably couple minutes from the outside of the painting perspective, but I played there for hours and then I came out.
[00:06:53] JR: You stepped into the wardrobe.
[00:06:57] HSF: I stepped into the wardrobe, exactly. Oh, thank you, Jordan. You get it. So when you have this extraordinary experience or something so unusual, what will be your very first reaction or a question or response? What happened? What was that?
[00:07:15] JR: Yeah, sure.
[00:07:16] HSF: I didn't ask that question, Jordan, because I knew so intuitively and affirmatively that I knew what just happened. I just knew what I just experienced. I just experienced a glimpse of new creation.
[00:07:34] JR: Amen.
[00:07:35] HSF: I walk in to this new Jerusalem, this wardrobe, and this painting was the portal, not only a portal, but actual piece of new creation that is gifted to us to decide this side of eternity. I just knew what happened. My very first question was, who is this artist?
[00:07:59] JR: This is so good.
[00:08:00] HSF: Because I just knew that at that moment, God chose this particular artist in his grace to anoint him, to paint something that is a piece of new creation, a portal into new creation, a way to invite us into his glory and his beauty. Years later, we met and we actually met not through any of our mutual friends, which we have a ton of, even after my account encounter with his art, we didn't have any, I didn't seek him out or anything like that. I just put that to my heart, because I wanted to just wait on God and see how he wants to use this experience, because he was a gift to me, as well, because I just experience something extraordinary. I put that aside and then just waited on him. Then when I met Mako, of course, I was really excited because by the time he became my favorite artist, I didn't tell him that, of course, when we started dating. I just wanted to stay cool –
[00:09:04] JR: You don’t want to be a fan girling in on your first date, right?
[00:09:08] HSF: Exactly. But he became a huge fan, actually, of the work that my team is doing with Embers International. I'll tell you the story a little bit later. We met and then, of course, we fell in love and we got engaged. After we got engaged and by the time I didn't actually shared a story with him, because I didn't want, I mean, we got to meet as a person to person, right? I didn't share the story, but after we got engaged, I share this story with him. I said, “Mako where is that painting?” Then he said, “Oh, it's been sold to a collector.”
[00:09:46] JR: Oh, no.
[00:09:47] HSF: I could understand. I asked God, “God, why? I thought that was my painting?” God, in his grace and abundance, of course, he's so funny. God said, “My child, do you want the painting? I'll give you the artist.”
[00:10:08] JR: I love that.
[00:10:09] HSF: That's what happened.
[00:10:10] JR: It’s so great. That's an amazing story. All right, you've touched on Embers International a couple of times. Tell us what Embers International is and a little bit about the work you guys do.
[00:10:22] HSF: Yeah. Thank you. Embers International is a nonprofit organization that does global work. We focus on India, right now, but our mission is to protect, restore and empower those who are marginalized and especially the victims of injustice. Our focus right now is victims of trafficking and particular sex trafficking. Even among that population our focus is to end violence and generational exploitation for children who are born into brothels.
What we do is we catalyze transforming experience for these communities that have been oppressed generationally, because of the poverty and caste in the social fabric that makes them a very easy victim of injustice and violence. I've been doing this work of anti-trafficking, anti-sex trafficking in particular, for over two decades by now. I started my work with International Justice Mission when I was in law school, and I continue my journey with them, ever since then. I was in different capacities as a volunteer, as a gala committee and so forth for New York City, for International Justice Mission.
Then eight years ago, I had this opportunity to go to India and meet the people that we've been supporting in this anti-trafficking work. When I went to India in God's Grace, he brought me to a brothel as undercover. It's a scary thing. It's a dangerous endeavor, but God really wanted to show me the depths of despair. So in that brothel, which is small, not even seven feet by six feet space that's dark and filthy and it's something that I never could even imagine how a people can actually live here. It's such an inhumane condition that you just feel in your spirit, in your skin, the sense of filthiness and danger.
In this space, I met a woman who's been trafficked for a decade by now, and still young woman, because she was trafficked when she was a teenager. I've been working to rescue this type of woman who has been just such a victim of exploitation for by the time about 12 years, but what didn't occur to me until then and in God's grace, he had to actually show it to me. I can really experience it, is the children who are born into brothels, the second and third and fourth generation who's trapped in this cycle of exploitation.
They're in this room with this woman. I met her daughter, who is six months old. I remember so wanting to just grab her and run away. Because I could I could see in front of my eyes what her life is going to be. Her life is going to be just like her mother and she wouldn't know anything outside of this brothel. She's not going to have any opportunity to be educated and know the outside world, to have the will of her own, to understand a human dignity and what human humanity really means. She's just going to be living in this terror and be groomed into this trade.
Human trafficking and human slavery is number two, moneymaking crime in the world, after drug trafficking. That's why at the end of the day, it's all about money to exploit someone else so you can make money, which is just the most inhumane thing that you can think of. So God showed me that eight years ago, and I just knew that we need to do something about this population, this generation. When you have two generations or even three generation living in a brothel and be exploited in this way, and children whose life is destined at birth to live in this tragic life, you can't just rescue one person at a time. We have to have a solution as to how we can break this chain and end the violence for good with an intergenerational empowerment approach.
About four years ago, Embers International was founded and started its operation in India, particularly in Mumbai to have this generational approach to not only protect, but also restore and empower so that the mother and the children, they can exit the brothel and enter into a life of not only freedom, but sustainable freedom.
[00:15:39] JR: I love it so much. Love the work you guys are doing. So you actually have two roles, though, right? You're CEO of Embers International, which we've just been talking about, but you're also the managing partner of your own law firm, Shim & Associates. Tell us a little bit about the type of law you practice in that firm.
[00:15:58] HSF: Sure. I practice mainly civil litigation and business law. My clients are all businesses, companies, business owners, and they range from startups. I love startups and entrepreneurs, all the way to a publicly traded company. I practice litigation at a different law firm for the first eight years, almost eight years of my legal career. Then now, ten years ago, I started my law firm and have rebranded along the way.
Shim & Associates is going to be celebrating its 10th year this year, which is really exciting. I wanted to create a law firm where not only do we provide the excellent legal services, but also create a space where lawyers love their work. It's really difficult to find lawyers who actually love their work. They might like –
[00:16:54] JR: I know a lot of them who don't. Yeah.
[00:16:54] HSF: Oh, you do? Oh, who don’t. That's right. It's really sad, because the whole practice is this phenomenal opportunity to serve the world. Lawyers, those of us who go to law school with a passion for it, this profession actually have a high respect for the profession. A lot of times the working environment and how we measure our success by the world's standard make us really happy in a sad situation where we actually like don't like being in the work space.
I saw that quite a bit in the first eight years of my legal career, and I didn't want to be in that space myself. I didn't want my friends to be in that space. I wanted to create a space where lawyers and also the support staff actually like coming into the office and working together and working for our clients and of course, I won't be able to hire all the lawyers in the world, but I wanted to become a model and just show to the world that, hey, this is actually possible. You can have a beautiful working space for lawyers. I think that leads to serving our clients better.
[00:18:13] JR: I think it's obvious for our listeners to see how the work you do at Embers International is “kingdom work”, right?
[00:18:23] HSF: Yes.
[00:18:23] JR: It's probably less obvious how civil litigation in a law firm is kingdom work. I think you've started to answer the question, but I want you to go there a little bit more explicitly. Do you see both organizations as vehicles for advancing the kingdom and if so, how?
[00:18:42] HSF: Oh, absolutely. Thank you for that question. I'll tell you briefly, I think if you go to my website and under my bio, there is a little bit longer lecture on what it means to be a lawyer. I think we have to start with the idea of what law is. I think we look at, I think when we evaluate any profession or any work, I think it's easy for us to just go to what's happening and what result that you are creating. I think we need to take time to go back to the origin and why we practice, so first of all, what is law? We have so many different types of law in this world. We have civil litigation, which I practice, business law that I practice also, we have family law, employment law, environmental law. I mean, so many different.
When I went to law school with a very clear vision of why I wanted to become a lawyer, which I get to actually live out now, which is so fortunate, but I realized how many different types of laws exist and how each one of them really affect the fabric of our society. Then if you look at it even deeper, law is all about relationship. Business law is about relationship between two businesses, or it could be even a business and then consumer. Environmental law it's about relationship between us and the environment and those who have a control over that. Family law, so obvious, it's between family relationships and so forth.
It take any type of law, it's all about relationship. What law does is two things. Either, the relationship is broken and this is what we see more often. We see two relationships broken. Law is there to help their relationship, relationships brokenness get resolved or repaired or help the parties to move on from their brokenness. Lawyers come in and we are the repairer and the mender of that relationship. When we do that, we of course bring in that knowledge of what the relationship was supposed to be and how it was broken and bring a solution, a possible solution. How that can be resolved.
Sometimes it can be more contentious or not, but ultimately, the idea is that how do we restore this relationship? On the other side is when the relationships are not broken, lawyers come in because the relationship is about to be formed or the relationship wants to take the relationship to another level. Let's say mergers and acquisitions, right? You have two companies coming together and they want to create this new relationship and enter into a new season. That's where lawyers come in and what we do is really create, whether it's a contract or a structure and it's really about educating the clients as well. Helping them understand what the responsibilities and rights and obligations and boundaries are, so that these parties who are involved in this new relationship can understand what they are supposed to do to bring that relationship to a place of flourishing.
[00:22:13] JR: Yeah. It's all about setting the framework for human flourishing. Is how you –
[00:22:19] HSF: Absolutely. Law is so vital and it's such a gift from God. How I see it, law was given pre-fall. It wasn’t because of the fall of man that God had to give us rules for us to follow so we can live within the boundary. I really believe that law was given at the time of creation.
[00:22:42] JR: Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about that. This is interesting.
[00:22:44] HSF: When God created, I love talking about this, by the way, Jordan. Thank you for the question.
[00:22:48] JR: Yeah. I love this, yeah.
[00:22:51] HSF: When God created the world in the first six days, the first three days he created the form, right? The space and then time and structure, then the last three days, he filled that form with animals, and plants, and human, and stars, and sun, and moon. What he did was, I am creating this space and time as a boundary, and then I'm going to give each agent, so whether it's sun, moon and stars who will govern the time. So we know when the sun rises, then we know it's a day and so forth. Then I'm going to put these parameters for the fish to live and flourish within the boundaries of water.
We have the animals and plants, and I'm going to have the human as my agent to govern and take care of my creation. God has created this world where everybody has to play its role. The idea of agency of these creatures governing to time, humans taking care of the earth, this idea of agency is actually a legal idea.
[00:24:10] JR: Yeah. This is interesting. This is good. Yeah.
[00:24:12] HSF: We have a principle, who is God, giving his authority to the agents to take care of his creation. When principle does that principle actually does not give away the right, but the agent has so has the same authority that is given to the agent within limited scope that the principle has given and we have the freedom to exercise that right and authority to do what we are called to do, which is to take care and store this world.
[00:24:47] JR: And on the behalf of the principle and his values.
[00:24:51] HSF: Exactly. That is a legal principle. God didn't need to do that, right? He didn't need to, first of all, create, but he did that out of love. He wanted to share his authority with us so that we can store this creation for his glory and our enjoyment. That was given to us at the time of creation.
[00:25:14] JR: Yeah. There's this passing the baton to his agents in the beginning, but there's also a passing the baton post-fall, post-resurrection, post the inauguration that the Kingdom of God, right? Jesus could have brought the kingdom in full, could have brought heaven to earth on the first Easter Sunday, but he didn't, right? He's doing that work, at least in part, through you and me. It is a wild idea to think about, right? We understand that God's going to carry out ultimate judgment, ultimate justice for every deed ever. Yet he's called people you to fight for justice at a microscale in the present. What do you make of that? How do you think about this? Is this attention? Like what do you make of this?
[00:26:00] HSF: I think, that's a great question, and I think we can ponder over this for days, but just to briefly share how I think about that is, God has invited us into this incredible journey towards new creation. The post-resurrection life that we have here with this beautiful understanding of although limited, because we are limited by a beautiful understanding of who Jesus is and Jesus to come. We live in this between time with this, as you beautifully described, this work that we are called to do to bring this beautiful sense of justice and peace and shalom in this Earth.
I think it's such a beautiful invitation for us to partake in God's work of restoring this world and bringing new creation into this world. We get to do that here and now and those are not just, in my opinion like a sample or just a little trick for us to see it, but it's actually new creation breaking in to this side of eternity. So when we seek justice and ultimately this problem of human trafficking and exploitation of women and children is a God size burden. It's a long and hard journey, but we get to journey with God and be part of this work and what God is saying is that you, did it with me, which is this really incredible honor.
When we do that and we need to do it more and better and deeper, new creation actually is breaking into this side of eternity. It's not going to be something that goes away at the time of judgment. It's not going to be burnt into something that we cannot grasp anymore, but it will be with us. It’s the idea of kings marching in to New Jerusalem. The beauty that we see in Isaiah and in Revelation, so yeah, I think that's why when I do my work as advocate just advocate, I have this satisfaction that whatever I'm doing is actually is going to stay, whatever that God chooses to hold onto for the neutrals. I mean, it's going to be glorified and it's going to be even better and it's going to be all for God’s glory, but it's not in vain.
[00:28:38] JR: This is first Corinthians 15:58.
[00:28:39] HSF: Yes.
[00:28:40] JR: Somehow crazy as it sounds, miraculous even as the resurrection itself, the work of the Lord, the work we do in the Spirit, in the Lord “is not in vain.” Somehow God's going to take it and refine it and wipe away all of its impurities and it's going to last into eternity. It’s incredible.
[00:29:02] HSF: Amen.
[00:29:04] JR: Hey, I know Mako is a big fan of Surprised by Hope by N.T Wright. I'm assuming you've read the book as well.
[00:29:11] HSF: Absolutely.
[00:29:11] JR: All right. So –
[00:29:12] HSF: That book, yeah.
[00:29:13] JR: You know –
[00:29:13] HSF: That book changed my mind –
[00:29:14] JR: I mean, this is what we're talking about, right? We're basically just quoting Surprised by Hope, right now. But I think this is interesting. So N.T. Wright, focuses in the latter half of that book on these three facets of the mission of the church, right? Evangelism, beauty, and justice and I love that you and Mako in this marriage are focused on two of these things, justice and beauty. So I'm curious is there a way in which these two seemingly disconnected things, justice and beauty, connect and work together to advance the kingdom?
[00:29:56] HSF: Oh, yes. When we met, God has given us a new language that we have been pondering in our respective lives before we met. When I seek justice and I've been doing this over two decades now, I don't seek it for the just sake of justice. The reason why I'm seeking justice is because I want to see beauty restored. It's not just a beauty at the end of justice, but along the journey of justice. As a very concrete example, when we rescued this one particular girl from a brothel, our team asked her question, “What do you want?” Like how Jesus asks us a question, “What do you want?”
This is a hard question for a trauma victim, because first of all, growing up and being born into a lawless cast into extreme poverty. People never asked that question to anybody. You don't really get to think about it, because it's not part of your life. First of all, having something that you desire is a really healthy sign of humanity. But this is a difficult question, but this particular girl really surprised us and moved us, because when we asked the question, “What do you want?” She said, “I want to be beautiful again.” Because this trauma, this victimization, this exploitation has taken that away from her, but she desires, so desired to be beautiful again.
When justice is not pursuing beauty throughout the way and for the restoration of that beauty and ultimately creating new type of beauty, this justice is not going to be satisfying to us. Mako and I have been doing this talk on beauty and justice for some time now. At this one event, we were able to share very, very briefly, how closely they are connected. Actually, in fact, beauty without justice and justice without beauty is really not complete. In that event, we had a Japanese ambassador to the U.N. who was attending the event. He's not a Christian, but wonderfully open-minded person.
At the end of that event, he came over and he said, “Your talk on beauty and justice really moved me, because I travel the world. I saw justice being cruel and not beautiful. I want to see beautiful justice.” When Mako creates beautiful art, there's certain resonance to it. So this beauty emanates light, sound and it resonates with people. But what he says is that, if the residence of my art doesn't reach the darkest places of the world, it's not complete. I think true beauty has that power of being resonant into places. But how much more powerful is it that when it resonates into the darkest places?
I think ultimately, what we do every single day, whether you're practicing law or creating art, or something else, we are seeking what is true, good and beautiful. Justice is what is true good and beautiful. Beauty is the same, right? I don't think you can have something good and not beautiful, right? I think it's not the separate three separate categories that we're seeking, but what we are seeking is true, good and beautiful. Justice, true meaning of justice embodies that and same as beauty. Briefly, if you look at the origin words for justice and righteousness in the Bible, it talks about restoration. It talks about all relationship being shalom in this beautiful, peaceful, flourishing state.
When God’s justice and righteousness is in place, you will have that beauty, because the relationship is going to be restored and it's going to be in a flourishing state, and we call that beautiful. Justice without beauty is something that cannot be actually discussed. It won't be complete.
[00:34:39] JR: Yeah. This is really good. We were talking before we started recording about my friend Victor Boutros and the Human Trafficking Institute. I know you're familiar with their work. Speaking about, we were talking about just how to be effective at this means of justice and specifically in this area of trafficking. Victor made an interesting point. Yeah, he said, “The best groups are the ones that focus on mastering a really small piece of the puzzle.” So for example, Victor and team, they focus exclusively on teaching law enforcement officials how to prosecute traffickers. That's all they do. They leave victim care to other experts. It sounds like you share a similar perspective on this. You're not fighting trafficking in general. It's real narrow, real focused. We’re helping to free and provide justice to these multi-generational women who are growing up in these brothels. Am I reading this right? Are you guys hyper-focused in this effort, if so, why?
[00:35:41] HSF: Oh, great question. The short answer is yes. To the why question, we have amazing organizations who's doing great work in the areas that we're in already. We have our partners who are doing rescue and intervention work. They are the ones who are working with the police, doing the raid and actually bringing the victims out of the brothel. What we are doing is something that is a lot more visible, because we're creating a community of people that surround these multi-generation, so that we can tell this red light district and the community in there that you cannot touch our people. So we say it takes a village to raise a child. So what we are doing is we are creating that village, but not in a mega massive way, but in a very concentrated way.
We have a children's center that we built in a red-light in Mumbai. We're providing daycare, which is even just globally a number one reason why women and especially mothers cannot take legitimate employment, because they can’t take care of the child. We started with a daycare, so we were just setting the foundation of this village, right? We have a daycare that we take care of children from Asia to all the way to the teenager years. We're sending our children to private school and showing them that, yes, there is a world outside of this. I never wanted our children to be competing among themselves by starting like a school in the red-light just for them.
I wanted to send them out to private schools and learn among children who are from different background and learn the world that's outside of the red-light, even though they are still living there, because of other circumstances. So we have an education program, we have a counseling programs, but our focus is really to help this multi-generation and a lot of times a two generation to exist and live a different life.
We haven't seen that many models out there, in fact. We're still creating a model where that is possible. I mean, there are great organizations who are rescuing just a child, but what happens with that is and I think that's a really important work. I just have the highest respect for them. What I realized was that when a child is rescued, of course, with the consent of the mother, we're still in the brothel. The child becomes an orphan, will have to grow up as an orphan. I'm just thinking about a situation where we can rescue both of them so they can actually start living as a family, continue to start, continue to live as a family and start living the freedom together and be an inspiration and as they go through the empowerment program together. The child will be going to school and the mother will be also learning life skills, but also vocational skills to be economically empowered, but they can become inspiration to each other.
[00:38:53] JR: Yeah. Yeah. This is so good. I just loved the laser like focus. This is what we're good at. This is the small piece of this very big puzzle that we're going to really master. I think that's great advice for listeners in any vocation, whether you're fighting human trafficking or trying to build a business, whatever it is, figuring out what God's equipped you to do most exceptionally well in service of him and others, and just leaving the rest to other people that can really master that particular works. That's really, really great, Haejin. Hey, three questions. I love to wrap up every conversation with, number one, which books do you find yourself recommending or gift in most frequently to others?
[00:39:39] HSF: Oh, great question. Can I do a shameless shout out to my husband's book –
[00:39:42] JR: Of course, you can.
[00:39:43] HSF: Art and Faith: A theology of Making, that is just incredibly beautiful book and very important. So you should read it. There's a reader guide, that's on Yale University Press website that is free for you to download, and that is not to just help you read the book, but it's to help you create a community along with the book. That will be really helpful, but if I can –
[00:40:12] JR: It was easily, it was easily one of the best books I've read in the last year. It's terrific.
[00:40:18] HSF: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Another book that I've given away, maybe at least 2000 copies is a devotional book called Seeking God's Face and it’s compiled by a Philip Reinders. It's like a brown leather bound. It goes through the church calendar, and it's a beautiful book. I use that book for three consecutive years to do my devotional. It will enrich your life and specially your daily devotional life.
[00:40:46] JR: I've got to read this. What's the name of it again?
[00:40:48] HSF: Seeking God's Face.
[00:40:50] JR: Great. I wrote down. This is great. All right, Haejin, who do you want to hear on this podcast? Talking about how the gospel shapes their work in the world?
[00:40:58] HSF: Our love for you to consider inviting Pastor Guy Rodriguez. G-U-Y and then Rodriguez. He has a Portuguese last name, but his Indian National. He is the chief of Vision Officer of Embers International. The partner that I have in India, the inspiration and vision behind everything Embers does. He’s just an incredibly humble, loving man. You and I, we met a lot of Christians in our lives. I'm a fourth generation Christian in my mother's side. I met a lot of people. But I will say, even including our family members, that Pastor Guy is the man who resembles Jesus to me the most.
[00:41:44] JR: Beautiful. How so?
[00:41:47] HSF: The way that he loves people, the motivations behind everything, and I think most of all, his sacrificial love in his service. I will love for you and the listeners to hear from him.
[00:42:04] JR: Yeah, that's great. Connect me with him. I'd really appreciate that. All right, before we sign off. Haejin, you're talking to an audience of Christ followers who do a lot of different things vocationally. We got lawyers in the audience. We've got startup entrepreneurs. We've got marketers and stay at home parents. What they share is a deep belief that their work matters for eternity and a commitment to doing it really, really well as a result. What's one thing that you want to leave them with before we sign off, Haejin?
[00:42:36] HSF: When I started as a as a lawyer, I guess even before that, I think when I went to law school, I had an opportunity to speak to now my mentor, Gary Haugen, who is the founder of International Justice Mission, and one of the most effective lawyers of our time. There's a couple of things he told me, but I think one thing that he told me, maybe I'll share both of them, actually.
[00:43:01] JR: Yeah.
[00:43:02] HSF: First he said, “You've got to learn about God who's a God of justice, if you're going to be a justice advocate.” If you are an artist, learn more about God who is an artist.
[00:43:16] JR: Amen.
[00:43:17] HSF: If you are entrepreneur, learn about God who is an entrepreneur.
[00:43:22] JR: Amen.
[00:43:22] HSF: I think that takes every day learning, so ever since I became a lawyer and I've been a lawyer for 18 years now. There was one question that I asked God every single day, even today, which is, God, what does it mean to be a lawyer? Teach me. Teach me today. That is a question that we need to ask God, rather than trying to just figure it out ourselves. Also just read the Bible in a way that you have that lens. I want to learn more about you, God, who is a lawyer, who's an advocate throughout history. That's one thing that I would love for everybody to start thinking about and then practice, ask that question to yourself and God.
Two is, he said, “Do it with friends.” We are never to do any work alone. Even Embers work, yes. We have this mastery over one area of anti-trafficking work, but we work alongside other partners and NGOs who are doing incredible work in different ways. We come together and we can end sex trafficking. Do it with friends. They don't even have to share the same passion with you, but do it with friends that you can share your struggles and your joys and visions and learn from each other, but do it with friends. Don't be alone.
[00:44:50] JR: That's a good word. This is what we see in Genesis one. We weren't meant to do this work alone. It wasn't good for Adam to work alone, so he created Eve. Then what Mako and I were talking about this when he was on the podcast. You see it again at the Resurrection. Jesus appearing as the gardener the last Adam and saying, “Hey, it's not good for me to build the kingdom alone. So I'm inviting you my bride, the church to help me cultivate the Kingdom of God.”
Haejin, I want to commend you for the exceptional, redemptive work you do every day at Embers and at Shim & Associates, right? Thank you for reminding us of God's heart for justice and the marginalized, just thank you for being committed to mastering your vocation for the glory of God and the good of others.
Guys, if you want to learn more about Haejin and her work, you can learn more at embersinternational.org and shimassociates.com, of course, both links right here in the show, notes. Haejin, thank you again for joining us today.
[00:45:48] HSF: Thank you so much, Jordan.
[00:45:50] JR: Man, I love that conversation. That Genesis one and two, connection of Adam and Eve as agents of the principal, blew my mind. I really, really enjoyed that. Hey, if you're enjoying the Call to Mastery, do me a favor. Go leave a rating of the podcast on Apple or Spotify, wherever you listen to your shows. Thank you guys for tuning in. I'll see you next week.
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