“TOMS for vitamins” CEO on making all things new
Jordan Raynor sits down with David Block, Founder of Previnex, to talk about the leap of faith David took to give away vitamins to malnourished children before it made sense financially, the wild story about how 3 separate street preachers in 3 separate subway cars helped lead David to Christ, and what Abraham and Joseph can teach us about patience in our work.
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[00:00:05] JR: Hey, everybody! Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I’m bringing you a conversation with a Christ-follower who is pursuing world class mastery of their craft. We’re talking about each gets path to mastery in their career. We talk about their daily habits and how their faith influences their work.
Today, you’re going to hear from my good friend, David Block. David is the Founder of Previnex, which is essentially TOMS for vitamins. So buy a nutritional supplement from Previnex, and they give a packet of their Super Vites, their super vitamins to malnourished children all around the world.
David’s had an incredible track record of extraordinary success in his life. He was a scholarship athlete at UCLA. He’s a graduate of Pepperdine Law school. He was a hedge fund manager and a Wall Street analyst named by the Wall Street Journal as one of the top stock pickers in all of America. It was there on Wall Street that David, one, met Jesus and, two, saw how the health and wellness industry was in desperate need of redemption. Previnex is really part of his answer to that need for redemption and part of the Lord's call on his life.
In this episode, we talked about David’s leap of faith to give away vitamins to malnourished kids, even before it made sense financially on paper, which is a tough thing for a former Wall Street analyst to do. We talked about the wild story of how he came to faith in Christ at the age of 30 and how three separate street preachers in three subway cars in a row helped to make this happen. We talked about what Abraham and Joseph and other biblical characters can teach us about patience and perseverance in our work.
Without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with my friend, David Block.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:02:04] JR: My friend, David Block, thanks for joining me.
[00:02:06] DB: Great to be here, Jordan.
[00:02:08] JR: I see you frequently in this setting, video calls since you’re a member of my Master Collaboratory for Founders. It’s fun have one of these conversations publicly. This should be really interesting. Because you're in the Collaboratory, obviously I am intimately familiar with Previnex but our audience isn’t. So let's start high level. What does Previnex do?
[00:02:27] DB: Sure. We’re a preventative healthcare company. We make clinically effective and clinically differentiated nutritional supplements that promote longevity and performance in everyday health. We also have a big philanthropic component to our business where we donate for every customer order a bottle of our premium children's multivitamins, Super Vites, to malnourished children all across the world. That kind of came actually into business not enough since inception but later on. But that's about as high level as I can go.
[00:02:56] JR: No, that’s great. You got into the elevator speech down through a tight 30 seconds. That’s really good. I've been using the products. I love it. I love what you called the new breakfast of champions, the Previnex shake. By the way, I have never bought nutritional supplements in my life. I am not one to be known for buying these types of things. Obviously, I bought them partially because you're in the Collaboratory. I just want to support you. But I actually have like really enjoyed the products. I’ve really enjoyed the journey with Previnex.
Let's talk about the Get Health, Give Health Program for a second, because the supplements industry – I mean, you want to talk about a cluttered space. This is as cluttered as it possibly gets. Part of the reason you guys do this is the standout, but I know that's not the primary driver. Can you talk about the genesis of the Get Health, Give Health Program?
[00:03:43] DB: Yeah, sure. We started the company in 2013. Our daughter was born in 2016, which was really the catalyst. My wife and I have just a huge heart for children, just this God-given love for all things children. She’s a NICU nurse who just has a real passion for caring and advocating for critically sick babies, and we’re both supporting children's charities and children in need and children’s causes with our resources over the years. I guess supporting these organizations and children gave us a really good perspective on some of the challenges that impoverished children face on a daily basis.
When our daughter was born in late 2016, I mean, a total game changer, the most amazing thing that changed our lives in so many amazing ways. But one thought that I kept having as I held this newborn in my arms besides like, “Wow! We created this little baby. I mean, it’s unbelievable,” was that there were parents around the world holding babies just like our daughter that were going to lose them to preventable things like malnutrition.
Attacking malnutrition as a company was something that I always wanted to do, and I guess the birth of my daughter really accelerated it. When I started researching malnutrition and what – I kind of thought that issue was largely a food and poverty-related issue. What I learned that that wasn't really the whole story. I learned 17,000 kids die every day from malnutrition. Up to 45% of those kids though, it’s actually not a food or starvation issue. It’s a vitamin deficiency issue. You give these children a multivitamin, they live. You don’t, they die, which is insane to me.
I just couldn't believe it. I knew we had to do something about it as a company. So I walked into the office the next week, gathered our team. I told them why the hidden model is out. I mean, there’s a back story here too. As I was kind of – Our daughter was born. There’s all this craziness going on like sleep patterns, and people are setting the sermons, because we were kind of like adjusting to go to church. What ended up happening, I mean, I was praying like, “All right, God.” After I read all this, it’s like, “What do you want me to do with this?” I thought a really clear answer, which was, “I’ve given you this business. I’ve given you this passion with children, this passion for educating people about health and wellness. I want you to think bigger about how you can serve me for my glory.”
We were in this really weird moment as a company where it was like, “Can I even continue doing this?” Just following that was a big leap, because financially it didn’t make any sense. I didn’t model it out. I was like, “Look. God, I feel you called me to do it.” So I gathered the team and I just said, “All right. Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to, number one, produce a best in class children’s multivitamin. Number two, we’re going to donate a bottle for every customer order of any product.”
I’m really proud. I mean, I’m just so passionate about this. Since we launched the program, it took about six months. July of ’17, we officially launched it. We’ve donated over 630,000 vitamins to malnourished children in Haiti, Guatemala, El Salvador, Peru. I’m so excited to see the impact we can make there. But that’s the genesis of the story.
[00:06:46] JR: That's amazing. It’s such a practical way. It’s such a practical expression of the glory of God in your business, right? Especially – I didn’t realize the part of the story where you as a former financial analyst not modeling out how this was going to affect the bottom line of Previnex and just trusting. Just saying, “You know what? God’s called me to do this, and one way that I'm going to glorify Him is by stepping out in obedience, even if I don’t know how this is going to work.” Right? That’s a really beautiful expression of practically how we can glorify God through our ventures.
Let’s talk about your story. I mentioned financial analyst. By the way, one of the things I’ve always appreciated about you and one of the reasons why I was so excited to bring you into the Collaboratory is like you're just one of those people that you want to bet on. I always believe in like investing in people. If I could buy stock in people, David Block would definitely be near the top of that list. You were a D1 college athlete at UCLA. I mean, waterpolo, so take it with a grain of salt, people.
[00:07:51] DB: Appreciate that. Yup. [inaudible 00:07:53].
[00:07:55] JR: A D1 college athlete at UCLA. It’s a huge deal. You went to law school at Pepperdine and then you went to Wall Street. Pick up the story from there. Talk us through the different stages of your career that eventually led to the founding of Previnex.
[00:08:09] DB: Yeah. I started my career as a researching analyst. Initially, like supporting a gaming analyst on covering casinos and the equipment suppliers to the casinos. That was a lot of fun. I was not a Christian at this point, so we’re going to Vegas all the time and doing research. I accelerated frequently at the firm and was given the opportunity to choose my own space to cover within the parameters of the bank like the trading volume, the investment banking prospects, etc. I came across this.
At that point, it was kind of this unclassified root of stocks that were in the food industry that had – Just as you’re looking at investment metrics, just these out of control investment metrics, you’re like, “This can’t even exist. I don’t know how – This is totally fraud or it’s – There’s something there.” I kind of put all these stocks into a bucket, and they nutritional supplement companies, ingredient suppliers.
[00:09:05] JR: This space didn’t really have a name and a way to classify them at this time. Is that right?
[00:09:08] DB: Yes. It was in the packaged – All these stocks were in the packaged foods sector, which was wild.
[00:09:15] JR: What year was this?
[00:09:16] DB: This was 2003. I’m doing a research on these stocks. I figure out like, “Wow! No one’s covering them. This is a massive opportunity for the bank.” At that point, my whole goal was like, “Launch a hedge fund, laser-focused, make money, live for the world.” So I was like, “This can really accelerate that if I do this right.”
What was interesting, we started doing the research, and I think two things jumped out at me about the space. One was there was all this proper clinical data that supported taking advanced levels of vitamins, minerals, antioxidant, other things like probiotics, omegas. As an athlete, by the way, I never took supplements. I had this negative bias towards them and I just was like, “Wow! This is proper, peer-reviewed clinical data.”
The second thing that jumped out was really like it’s an unregulated industry. It is regulated but it’s like a self-policing space. As I got deeper and deeper, you just kind of realize that unless a consumer had a background in nutritional science, they had absolutely no shot of understanding what ingredients could promote their health, what products could promote their health. Even worse, companies knew this, and it was almost this predatory industry, which I thought, “This is insane. This stuff can extend life potentially.” It’s just all backwards.
My job though – I mean, what I did was read clinical studies all day, tour manufacturing facilities, meet with executives, speak with investors. I built up this expertise primarily on nutritional supplements. Then I got in – Well, I launched a hedge fund. That’s a whole another story. God enters my life, and it was like, “All right. I’m not designed for this. What do you want me to do?” Then it was – It kind of led me into the supplement space as an entrepreneur, which is a whole another story.
[00:11:11] JR: Yes. I want to go back to that second, but let’s park for a second on the faith story. I’ve never heard all the details of this, right? But you’re raised Jewish. You’re bar mitzvah’d, right? You came to faith in Christ later on. How old are you? 30 or so?
[00:11:25] DB: 30.
[00:11:25] JR: 30. Can you – How’d that happen?
[00:11:28] DB: I did this kind of succinctly, because there’s a lot of components to this. Yeah, I was born into a Jewish family. I went to a Hebrew school, had a bar mitzvah. Some of my fondest memories probably from up until I was 10 years old was like Shabbat dinners at my grandparents’ house. We’re praying over the bread and the wine in Hebrew. We got Manischewitz, Shabbat. We got the good Shabbat setup, right?
But I think we were pretty much Jewish by ancestry only and it just fizzled over time. At the same time, I was ultra-ambitious. I always poured myself into everything I did. I mean, part of my high school years was athletics and water polo, which scholarship to UCLA. The first two years over there, the team won the national championship. I got to play internationally. That fuelled this like, “Oh! This is amazing. You set your mind and self and you can do it.”
When my playing days were over, all eyes were on finance and investing. Read a finance book. I was like – I read about hedge funds and I learned that you can make 2% management fee and a 20% performance fee. I was like, “This is legal? I could actually do this. This is insane.” Not so much as an investor but as the manager. I mean, I didn’t even really know what stocks were, any of that nature. I just all eyes on the prize pursued that with everything I had and then advanced in my career as analyst. I ended up launching the hedge fund, won some awards along the way.
The story kind of changed when I was running the hedge fund, because I put so much into the pursuit of that venture. When I got there, I was expecting like, “Oh! This is what’s going to give me happiness or satisfaction or peace.” It was the exact opposite. I was more miserable. I just was miserable. I kind of felt like this is not what I’m supposed to be doing. Making rich people richer is just not floating the boat. That’s when God started to kind of do some things. Kind of the worst moment, the lowest point I would say.
I just turned – Some are pretty unfamiliar. I turned to God. I said, “God, help me. If you’re real and you exist, I want a relationship with you. I want you to show me.” It’s like 2:30 in the morning, a random day in November. The next day – I mean, you have to be careful sometimes what you ask for. I mean, I was like – My whole heart was craving like, “God, if you’re real, I need something.” Right?
The next day – I had two offices in New York. One was out in Long Island. One was in Midtown Manhattan. To get to the Long Island office, I have to get on three separate subways, and then take the Long Island railroad. I get on the first train. By the way, I’m like mister efficiency. I know the exact door to enter to like the shortest walk in each of the trains. The first train, street preachers inside the train, just saying, “Give your life to Jesus. He will forgive your sins.” It was all that usual, but I had my ears up that day. It wasn’t super common but not all that uncommon. I’m walking to the next subway. “Give your life to Jesus. He will forgive your sins,” a separate street preacher.
[00:14:24] JR: No way.
[00:14:25] DB: It keeps going. I go to the third subway. I mean, word for word, the same message, “Give your life to Jesus. He will forgive your sins.” I’m like, “This is crazy. This is hard to – I’m a pretty analytical, pragmatic guy.” But I was like, “This is too much of a coincidence.” I get to the office and like 10 more [inaudible 00:14:46]. I’ll just share two very quickly.
One, I’m checking my email. I think I was like pretty depressed. I’d let my inbox stack up and I get this message from the Vice Chancellor of Pepperdine [inaudible 00:14:56]. I’d recommend you check out Redeemer, Tim Keller. Then the mailman walks in a minute later. I get this manila card stock envelope that gets delivered. It’s from the Vice Chancellor of Pepperdine, and it says a better life. It says, “We live a better life when we let our values shape our dreams and our priorities, rather than letting our dreams and our priorities shape our values.”
It just struck me that I was living the wrong way at that moment and I was sick. I was like, “I’m done with this,” A ton of other stuff happened but I don’t want to – This is a long story. But to shorten it and conclude it, I get back to my apartment, I’m lying in bed, I’m thinking about the day, and I’m like, “All right, God. You – I can’t explain. This is crazy. I can’t explain this any other way that you are real. You answered this prayer.” Then the next thought was, “Well, the street preachers weren’t saying, “Give your life to God.” They were saying. “Give your life to Jesus.”
I just — I went – Again, I’m a research analyst. I was like, “Hundred hours.” No joke, I went over every question I had. Is this real mythological figure? Is there archeological evidence for the bible, etc. etc. I concluded that, yeah, Jesus died and was resurrected beyond a reasonable doubt, and it was – I was shot. But, I mean, obviously the best thing that’s ever happened to me. Values changed overnight, so I thought. Entrepreneurship taught me a little more about that but, I mean, great peace since then coming to a relationship with Jesus.
[00:16:23] JR: One unbelievable story. I had never heard the subway part of that story. I mean, talk about a visible proof that God grabs a hold of us. God chooses us, seeks us out. Paul talks about nobody seeks God. God sought you out, man. That’s an incredible, incredible testimony.
You talked about being ambitious for your work and for your career, prior to this. You’re still ambitious though for the work that you're doing at Previnex. Talk about the shift in the motives for that ambition and what's driving you in this pursuit of mastery of your craft.
[00:16:57] DB: Yeah. I think the very fundamental piece is it’s not about me. It’s about God. It’s about glorifying God. It’s about serving others. It’s about following God's great mandate and carrying that out through Previnex. I will tell you that was a lot of choppy water to get there along the way. I think because I had pursued money and status and prestige and those wrong things that you can turn around about, I almost – They were still there, even though I didn’t think they were, even like my askew perspective on money was happening, because I kind of want to stay as far away from it as I could.
But through a lot of refinement and just trials and faith and just try to grow an enterprise and a business, God did get me there. I mean, this is about Him. It’s about – The prayer to when I was storing the fund was, “God, whatever you want me to do, I will do. You want me to go teach in Ecuador, I’ll do it. You want me to go – You tell me. I’m yours. Go do it.” That’s how we got to Previnex but a lot of refinement along the way. But it’s about God. That’s the story.
[00:18:03] JR: You reminded me of some parallels as Scott Harrison's story at charity: water, right? I mean, Scott was saved later in life. He was working in Manhattan for all the wrong reasons. The Lord powerfully grabbed a hold of Scott's life, and now he's doing this incredible work trying to serve the world's most vulnerable people and vulnerable kids. We should do a – We should have a Call To Mastery live in Manhattan with you and Scott and these like modern-day prodigal sons who came to faith in the city at a later age. That’d be a really interesting conversation.
[00:18:35] DB: I’m in. Let’s do it.
[00:18:37] JR: You mentioned that you recently – That your grandfather escaped from concentration camps twice, which is like mind-boggling to me. I’m just really curious. I mean, a big part of your story as an entrepreneur is just like this theme of like survival, right? How – Have you thought about how your grandfather’s stories impacted your own work as an entrepreneur in your own grit and just perseverance in surviving with this company?
[00:19:04] DB: Yes. Not specifically in those terms, but I think it’s just in the fabric of who I am. On second thought, just before this podcast about my grandparents who both immigrated from Europe. One escaped pre-World War II. The other came after, and both are entrepreneurs. One had a jewelry business. The other was a furrier. My dad started his own practice; my stepdad, his own legal practice.
That modeling I guess was just always there. l never really thought of it. I always kind of just liked to do my own thing. But for sure, hearing stories of my grandfather, and he had his mother, father, and younger brother execute it at Auschwitz, in the gas chambers that he didn’t like to talk about for obvious reasons. But hearing the story of just the thought that it – Just how he persevered. Three months in solitary confinement where he was unable to even lay flat on the ground and how he kept his mind sharp and just how he – He would draw like a chessboard and became a chess master doing it. It’s just these unbelievable stories that I think were just ingrained in me and like, “Hey! You just take adversity right on the head and keep going.”
[00:20:20] JR: Yeah. It’s been such a theme of your story, like one of the things I most respect about you, again, to observe you up close is you’re in such a tough space. I mean, the nutritional supplements industry is so tough and really capital-intensive, right? But you have persevered. I mean, you’re too humble to admit it, but like I consider you to be a masterful founder. You do so many things right in leading this company and leading this team. I’m really curious to get your perspective on like what you think is the most important ingredient, pun intended, to becoming a masterful founder? What’s really essential in your leadership of this venture?
[00:20:57] DB: Yeah. There are a lot of things. I don't know if I can get down to the essential thing but I do think in many respects we should’ve gotten into business a long time ago. I think but for having really exceptional products, we have been in the business a long time ago. I think the perseverance, the grit. Walking by faith more than sight through really tough moments but also transferring that to a team, that seems how hard it is but they’re going to rise with the occasion.
I think because, I don’t know, my leadership or transferring the vision to them and the enthusiasm to them. But for sure, in my – This story, it’s perseverance, grit. This is not my story. This is God's story. He showed up so many times. The Red Sea has parted. This just gives you faith that even when you get to the next real moment of adversity, God’s going to do it again, and He has.
[00:21:53] JR: I want talk about some of those peaks and valleys in Previnex’s story here in a bit. But first, I want to stay focused on the craft for a little bit, because we obviously have a lot of entrepreneurs who listen to the show. One thing that I really respected that you've done in the last year or so within Previnex is really focused your team on the few activities, the really essential activities that really moved the needle for Previnex. Can you talk about some of the breakthroughs you guys have had and you guys have experienced as a result of that increased focus?
[00:22:23] DB: Yeah, definitely. As you know and probably any listener knows, there are so many things you can pursue within a given venture or as an entrepreneur. You really actually helped me with this, Jordan, so I have to give you props. But when we figured out – Listen. We were chasing a massive opportunity that kind of didn’t materialize. For survival, it was like, “We have to get to the top when we’re going here. What do we focus on?” We just let the default inventory or what works, what doesn’t and concluded that for us, given the quality and effectiveness of the products, we have a staple of ambassadors, influencers, traders, dietitians, celebrity trainers, athletes who we kind of leveraged the trust they have with their communities. We just decided, “You know what? We know that piece since day one is growing for us, so forget everything else. Even if we’re going to lose some pieces, we’re going all in.”
That was in the summer of Q2. It’s probably July when we made that decision. We grew the core business 5% in Q2, 11% in Q3, 28% in Q4. We’re on pace to do kind of 40-ish percent growth Q1, although it’s early still. But wow! I mean, what an amazing great lesson for us on a couple levels. Hit singles all day because that’s still going to score runs. But what is the best when you get at singles? For us, it was that strategy and laser focus and putting real measurable goals into that channel.
[00:23:58] JR: I mean, if you guys are going 40% quarter over quarter growth, that's unheard of. Those are some pretty crazy numbers. Investors tell you they’re either going to invest in crazy vision or crazy numbers, and I think you've got the makings of both, which is really, really exciting. It just reminds me of one of my all-time favorite books, The 80/20 Principle, and a very related book, Essentialism, which I know I’ve sent you. Almost nothing matters in a venture. Everything looks important. Very few things are. Your job as the founder, as the leader of the venture is to find the essential few.
Often in marketing, it really is one thing. I'm convinced there’s like one traction channel that really drives results in ventures. For you guys, kudos to you for, one, recognizing that, okay, it’s affiliates, right? It’s influencers promoting the product. Two, equally importantly, being willing to stop doing everything else, even though it was moving the business but it was marginal, and realizing the exponential effectss of focusing on that one channel, that there's a lot of wisdom there.
I’m really curious. You’ve been in my Collaboratory for about six months now. What have you learned from the other members that’s had the biggest impact on your business?
[00:25:08] DB: A good question. Well, first, so leadership can be really lonely and isolating. There are a lot of people, unless they're in that seat, that can relate to all of the challenges and ups and downs and emotions and the balancing that goes into that. So just to have that space is amazing.
I’ve gotten tangible feedback on like, “Here are some things you could probably do in your business that could move the needle,” and, in fact, it has. But I think the number one thing is just seeing a group of Christ-loving men and women who – They have the same kind of insecurities, the same fears, the sane challenges. That’s’ affirming, because, I mean, we’re in it together and we’re there to encourage each other. That's just been really helpful.
I think the second piece is also just I’ve really gotten better understanding of theology of work and what it’s really all about just for being on that group part. That’s teaching at a bible study. But part of that too is just listening to how other founders are talking about their enterprises and how they’re just doing their daily work.
[00:26:18] JR: Yeah. We’re not meant to do this thing in isolation, right? Man, to be in community with other Christian founders that are creating their businesses for the same purpose is a really, really powerful thing.
Let's talk about personal routines, habits. You're an incredibly disciplined guy. I’d actually love to hear the tick-tock of your day. From the moment you get up to the moment you go to be, what does your day look like?
[00:26:41] DB: I love it. I love it. I thrive on a routine. I could eat the same thing for breakfast every day. In fact, I have out shake. I mean, I’m just like routine to a fault.
5:00 AM, I get up, work out, spend time in the word, pray. I thought of actually praying right after I work out. I kind of experimented with the order of this but there’s something about like my body being a little broken and going into prayer right after that that it just seems like a little more effective. I don’t know. Not effective but I’m just more tuned in.
[00:27:14] JR: Yeah, sure.
[00:27:14] DB: From there, off to the shower. I’m not going to go too detailed but here’s what I can tell you. The only part maybe I can control is the AM, like the first part and the last part. The first part is highly structured. The last part is highly structured. I try to even like block out what I’m going to be doing. In the beginning of the day, I organize around that. But then the day can take a life of its own. Between 9:30 AM and 6:00 PM, it can – I can add the best intentions, but things can divert, and that’s okay.
I shut down at 6:00. I definitely like – I love being a dad, my favorite title bar none. So spending time with my wife and my daughter. Then I make it a point now at 9:00 PM to just go to bed. In bed, I’m going to read for 30 minutes. I know my sweet spot for sleep is seven and a half hours. If I get seven and a half hours, I mean, excellence is possible.
[00:28:11] JR: I love that.
[00:28:11] DB: If I get six hours –
[00:28:13] JR: Not so much.
[00:28:13] DB: It’s not. It’s just not.
[00:28:14] JR: No, it’s not.
[00:28:16] DB: The habit of reading and filling my mind, when I have been in moments, I’ve kind of had fits and starts with this. I’ve been an aggressive reader. I’ve been like – Just on time. Then I get back to being an aggressive reader. When I’m in those zones of reading, I’m always growing. I mean, it’s a leading indicator of growth.
The whole key to this routine though is the key of routine. It’s bed at 9:00. It’s reading for half an hour. It’s getting that sleep and then repeating. The one little flexible part of this is like last night, my wife and I went to a charity event for our daughter’s school. We didn’t get home until 10:00. The one thing that’s going to get cut out is exercise. I mean, I used to do it. I’m so rigid about that. But I’m not training to an athlete anymore. I’d rather get to sleep. I mean, for sure, you have to be in the order of praying or the day is not going to go as well as it would otherwise. But then the rest is just structured, and it’s about executing and just getting after it.
[00:29:13] JR: I was going to ask you about exercise versus sleep. If you had to trade off one, what would it be? Because I know as an athlete how much you appreciate exercise and value that. That’s good to hear you say. I think a lot of people don't realize the science behind. There’s so much academic research on sleep and increasing the numbers of books that talk about this. You cannot. You cannot. I think it’s like 1% of people who could operate at 100% efficiency with less than seven hours of sleep. If you think you’re the exception, you’re 99% sure you're fooling yourself. Get seven hours of sleep.
By the way, you and I have been kind of in tandem, experimenting with this new productivity thing. Putting our phones to sleep, right? Can you talk about real quick?
[00:29:58] DB: Yeah, sure. I think just as a general principle, we should always be looking at how can we improve incrementally every day. Part of mine was I realized that getting to bed at nine o’clock, that main thing that was getting in the way was my own self-discipline and mainly just like surfing Internet on my phone or social media, and it just became a rabbit hole. So I just decided, “You know what? I need to make this thing impenetrable starting at 8:00 PM.” You can’t even get into another thing.
I started doing that, which is helpful. But for like Kindle and some other things – Anyway, my wife is obviously like an emergency contact, if she’s going to get a hold of me. But that’s been really helpful. From 8:00 PM to 8:00 AM, I cannot be reached. I cannot be disturbed. I cannot be text messaged. I cannot be – that’s been really, really helpful on a lot of levels like being a better husband, being more engaged with my wife, being a better dad. It’s just been good.
[00:30:59] JR: Yeah. I’ve been putting mine to bed. I love kind of putting it to bed. It sounds like a child, right? It actually makes me feel more in control of my life. I don't know why. Just that little term or phrase. But, yeah, I’ve been putting my phone to bed at 7:30 PM. I've been going to bed lately because I’ve been waking up earlier at like 8:45 PM and actually bought a Kindle device just so I could read without being distracted by other opportunities on my phone after my phone goes to bed. I love that productivity hack.
David, we’ve talked a lot about your passion for marketplace ministry. Can you just talk at a high level? Can I ask you to get up on your soapbox and talk about why you’re so passionate about this?
[00:31:40] DB: Yeah, sure. Gosh! There’s a lot of reasons. I’ll just – The statement up front, I believe with everything I see and I know. Marketplace ministry is the best way to market to ministers of the world in the cultural moment that we live in. A few things that have shaped that, I served as an elder, and trust me, in my church in New York City for the last seven years. We had James Davidson Hunter come in, and he made an argument. We had kind of two weekend sessions, one year part.
When he came in originally, the argument was we’re in this unique cultural moment that has never existed in Christianity until today. I was really resistant to that because –
[00:32:23] JR: What is unique about it from Hunter?
[00:32:25] DB: He would argue some few things, the rise technology, information. He would say pluralism. We experienced pluralism more than any time before, which just outs pressure on Christian practice. He didn’t say pervasive skepticism. Probably enlightenment introduced the idea of downing everything; pragmatism, consumerism, hyper individualism, loss of the sacred, and transcendence.
Anyway, the bottom line, like I got there. I kind of get there. This is truly a unique moment in time. I think whereas maybe 50 years ago, a pastor in a community was the most respected person. It’s just not the case anymore, especially in the United States. I mean, secularism is dominating. I mean, it is one the rise, and I think nonprofits – I could share my thoughts o nonprofits if you want, but it goes back to I think people in this cultural moment idolize, I mean, business leaders, and you can see it. You just can see it.
It’s kind of a twofold thing. I think excellence in the marketplace draws attention and is a way to open up the conversations with the gospel. I don’t know if you’ve heard about it. You just have to be excellent at what you do that can drive it. I think that’s one piece of the puzzle, and it’s just the cultural moment that we’re in. People just have eyes on businesses, and I just think there’s tremendous opportunity to minister through our businesses.
[00:33:56] JR: Yeah. I talk a lot about this in Master of One that like mastery of our craft. Listen, the most fundamental reason why we should care about mastery is because it's one of the ways in which we glorify God and love our neighbor as our self, right? But scripture is also clear in holding out other promises, and one of them is I think when we’re masterful of our craft, we become salts and light in the world. Mastery is winsome. Mediocrity is attractive to nobody, right? But business leaders who are crushing it in the marketplace and creating great shareholder value and serving their customers well, that is respected and that opens up doors of influence and opportunity, one, to just love more people and glorify God at a greater human scale. But, two, to also proclaim the gospel with words sometimes, right?
[00:34:45] DB: 100%, yeah.
[00:34:46] JR: Have you seen that? I mean, listen. You’re crushing at Wall Street. Now, you’re crushing as an entrepreneur at Previnex. Post-salvation, have you seen opportunities open up because you are masterful at your craft to share the gospel?
[00:35:02] DB: Yeah, I think so. I mean, when I give talks, whether it’s a business school or a college, inevitably there are people who want to connect, which is great. I love it. A lot of people poured into my life when I was kind of going down this nontraditional path to finance. So, yeah, absolutely. I mean, in speeches, it’s – They are not overt about it but I’m – It’s certainly just there, because it’s who I am. But in meeting with people, you’re talking about what matters to us. It comes up almost all the time.
Why do we think this way? Well, we believe. I have a strong Christian worldview and believe that serving others first is that is what we’re called to do, that we’re created by God to do that. That just comes up. It opens up also to questions. There are opportunities. I’d love more of those opportunities. I probably could be a little more overt about it but they come up, which is great.
[00:35:59] JR: Yeah. But the work in and of itself is good, right? You talked about how Previnex is helping to “make all things new,” right? That is good in and of itself. Talk about what you mean by that. How exactly is Previnex helping to make all things new and being a part of this broader God-driven story of redemption for the world?
[00:36:19] DB: Yeah. I think when we started what we do on the donation, the philanthropic side of it, I mean, we know God loves everyone. We know He loves children. It’s explicit in the bible. We know He loves families and we know — love everyone, right? Looking at the children we serve who are either going to die or going to be stunted, they’re not going to reach their God-given potential, that just hurts me. I mean, it really hurts me. So being able to affect change there with what we’re doing is something that we need to do.
But the other part of this is we really have to serve our customers and make – We care so much about excellence with product because we want to positively influence the health of everyone. But our customer is where it starts, and so just helping people get to a healthy weight, helping people with all sorts of things. I mean, there’s all sorts of testimonials we’ve gotten.
But one story that comes to mind is when I was in high school, we had a family friend who just this larger-than-life father, two daughters unexpectedly dying of a heart attack. Seeing the brokenness and the interruption – Like the brokenness of what happened after that daughters and the family, that just really sit out to me. It’s like, listen, not all of this is preventable but there are certainly things that are, and I think being able to address those though our business and help people at least create health in their own lives is an example of if we can prevent one person from dying for something preventable, that is reshaping kind of the narrative of their entire life and all the ripples that could happen if the opposite – We think about that a lot.
[00:38:03] JR: That is ministry. That is important, eternally significant. You are helping people live more in line with how we were created in the garden, right? That is – I mean, I think it's one of the clearest pictures of redemption. We live in this fallen world. You in your industry and people gone before you have found ways to help repair creation, repair our bodies to live healthier lives, to be more like Adam and Eve, pre-sin in the garden.
You're pointing us to the redemption of all things. You’re pointing us to the bodily resurrection that we will all experience on a new heaven and a new earth that started with Jesus on that first Easter Sunday morning. Man, I have goose bumps. That fires me up. With every transaction, you are in maybe a seemingly small way but a significant way doing the Lord’s work and bringing the Lord's will about in this earth, because you're focused on making excellent products that actually change people's lives in a positive way. I love it.
David, I’ve heard you talk in the past about your story about some of the deep valleys in the story of Previnex. Can you identify one specifically, one such valley, and talk about what that was and what God taught you through that experience?
[00:39:25] DB: Yeah. To pick one. Well, the good thing here is, I mean, there’s just been a lot. Yeah, I mean, in many ways, entrepreneurship has been the most excruciating thing I’ve ever done; financially, emotionally, relationally, physically, spiritually. Yeah, I think probably the hardest part of the journey for four years of the seven years, I didn’t take anything out of the business, which was good in many ways, because God was refining me around my view of money and status and other things.
But I just remembered there was this moment for the first time in my life that my checking account went negative. I couldn’t afford groceries. When I was pursuing money and hedge funds, Wall Street salaries, I mean, that just wasn’t – It just – that wasn’t even on the radar, right?
[00:40:17] JR: Inconceivable.
[00:40:18] DB: Inconceivable. I never had this little change kind of like zip lock bag. In New York City, you get deliveries all the time, and this is pretty – Everything is on the apps, so you actually tender with cash over. It’s crazy that’s even existing.
[00:40:33] JR: What a world.
[00:40:34] DB: Unbelievable. I had all this change. I remember going down to like the local bank that had a little coin counter. I think my account was -$24.16, and it was like $24.20 of change. This just was one of these like moments of, “All right, God. You got me. You promised in Luke where you saved lives. Luke 12:24. Feeding the ravens is real.” I think there were so many moments like – I guess that’s the personal story.
On the business side, yeah, I mean, there were times where we couldn’t even comprehend or I couldn’t comprehend how we’re going to make payroll and keep the business going. It just wasn’t a number too big, and our revenue at that time just wasn't there, and it was like, “All right. We finally hit our moment. But, God, look. You’re a god of miracles. If you want to say keep going, because it’s all you. I mean, you got to show up.”
Just these crazy things that were like a wholesale client that wasn’t even supposed to — like 50,000 or that orthopedic group would randomly reach out and say, “Hey! We want to partner with you on this and we're willing to deposit this much money.” This has happened so many times, so that’s what’s hard to isolate to one. Maybe one last thing. When we were – Gosh! It is a hard journey. I mean, at least it has been for me. A really, really hard journey.
[00:41:56] JR: It is for everybody. You’re not alone. This is the most exhausting thing you can do is start and grow a company.
[00:42:02] DB: It has been but one of the best things too. Just with everything I’ve learned. There was this moment where out of nowhere, I was offered a Wall Street again, senior consumer analyst at a pretty prominent investor bank, and the pay package was gigantic. It would’ve have accomplished all the goals that my wife and I have. But this was kind of this moment like, “Well, God, did you bring this? Is this your provision? Did you bring this in so that we could step over there?”
80% of that job I actually really enjoyed, but there’s one of these moments of, “Gosh! I would hate to regret stepping away. So, God, I just need you here.” For the very first time in my whole life, praying and fasting. I’ve never done it before. I was thumbing through the bible in Hebrews 10: 35-36. It came right away in the morning, which was, “Do not lose this confident trust you have in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you. Patient endurance is what you need now to continue to do God's will.” I was like, “Hmm, that’s interesting.”
I’m like still praying and fasting, praying and fasting. Around 6:00 PM that day, my father-in-law who has no clue that I’m even doing any of this or doesn’t even know I’m considering like just getting out of Previnex and ripping the rip chord and parachuting me something else, he sends me in a different translation the exact same Scripture. I was like, “All right, God.” What’s been crazy about that, that was like four years ago maybe at this point, it is the real key fork in the right moment since that Scripture gets thrown at me. But it’s only three times but it’s insane. Its faith in God is the only way I could have sustained and kept going through this thing.
[00:43:55] JR: I love it. But I think you deserve a lot of credit for being attuned to where the spirit’s living around you. I could see those exact same circumstances happening to a different person and them just not noticing it, not having the mental capacity, the space to make those connections and to see the Lord moving. I think that's a big testament to your spiritual disciplines in communion with the Lord on a regular basis. It’s a wonderful, wonderful thing.
All right, David, I love – You’re a listener of the Call to Mastery. You know I like to ask the same three questions to wrap up every conversation. First one, which books do you tend to recommend the most to others?
[00:44:33] DB: Yeah. You already brought it up, Essentialism. I mean, that had such a big impact like a tangible impact on the business and I think just the right way to think about energy and effort. I’ve been recommending that one nonstop. That has been paying forward big time. Thank you for sending that to me. The impact that had was huge.
[00:44:53] JR: Absolutely. My pleasure.
[00:44:55] DB: Hey, listen. This is good. Master of One has been recommended recently. Both came out, and I sent it to a few people. So the timing is good there. Great book. But I tell you, if we’re really talking about Essentialism, I’m not focused on many other books right now to send to people.
[00:45:10] JR: There you go. That’s so good. No. That’s good advice. For those of you listening, if you haven’t read Essentialism, please read that before you read Master of One. Greg, the author of Essentialism, Greg McKeown was generous enough to endorse Master of One. I tell people all the time, I’m like, “Other than the bible, that book influenced Master of One more than any other.
All right, David, very interested to hear your answer to this question, because I know you know a lot of very influential people in business, in Wall Street. What one person – I’ll let you off the hook. You can name multiple people if you would like. But who would you most like to hear talk about how their faith influences their work?
[00:45:48] DB: Four people actually come to mind.
[00:45:49] JR: I love it. There we go. Keep going go. Go.
[00:45:51] DB: I want to fill your pipeline here. Are you ready?
[00:45:53] JR: Yeah. Fill up the pipeline.
[00:45:54] DB: In no particular order, Greg Brenneman. Greg turned around Burger King, turned around Continental Airlines and he just has a really interesting perspective on what it means to be a Christian in the marketplace. I think it’s a unique perspective. That would be – I mean, he’s a great guy. That would be a great one.
[00:46:13] JR: Wasn’t it Greg in the continental story? Wasn’t that a part of a Jim Collins book?
[00:46:17] DB: It might have been.
[00:46:18] JR: I think it is like Great by Choice or one of them. I may be totally making this up and a listener can correct me. But I’m pretty sure he was in that story. Anyways, sorry. Continue.
[00:46:27] DB: I wouldn’t be surprised. I mean, he is impressive in so many ways, but loves the Lord first and foremost and that influences the work he does. Scott Stevenson is number two. I served with Scott as an elder at my church in New York City for 6 years. I’ve become great friends with him. He’s the CEO of Verisk. 8,000 employees. They are S&P 500. Rocking it. He was just recently I think number 16 on Forbes list of most innovative CEOs. Number one was Elon Musk. Number two is Jeff Bezos. This is a guy though who more than anyone I know walks the walk.
[00:47:05] JR: How so?
[00:47:07] DB: He loves people. He loves people. He is so generous with his time. He is so generous with his influence, with his capital. He’s just a great guy, a great guy.
[00:47:20] JR: Okay. Great. I’m putting Scott in the list.
[00:47:22] DB: Cheryl Bachelder. She turned around Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen and I think was interim CEO. She might be the CEO of Pier 1 right now, or if she’s not, she’s on the board. She has a great perspective on excellence. What it means? Why it matters?
[00:47:37] JR: Yeah, I’ve heard Cheryl speak before. She’s terrific.
[00:47:40] DB: Yeah, Cheryl is great. Tom Cole runs Citibank leverage [inaudible 00:47:44]. This is another guy. Walks the walk. Great guy. But I think what’s interesting thing in the financial world is how do you express Christ’s love as the head of one of Citibank’s arms to a group that’s, I mean, money is the collateral – If not the thing everyone’s pursuing above all else.
[00:48:04] JR: Yeah, that’s interesting.
[00:48:06] DB: I have one last random one. It just came to my mind. Rob Pelinka, who is the GM of the Lakers.
[00:48:11] JR: Interesting.
[00:48:12] DB: My best man in my wedding was in a small group with him and his now wife. I’m pretty sure Rob is still – It is the core, core thing to him. I know his wife who’s a pediatrician is like I am serving as God’s hands and feet to the children that I care for. But Rob would be pretty interesting.
[00:48:32] JR: That’d be fascinating. Throw in wife is a pediatrician. I think that’d be a terrific episode.
[00:48:35] DB: I went a little overboard. But there is the list.
[00:48:38] JR: Yeah, thank you for filling the pipeline. I appreciate it. By the way, if you’re listening to this show and you have suggestions, I’m always open to them. Shoot me an email. I’m very easy to find, jordan@jordayraynor.com. Who do you want to her? I’m always curious. By the way, I’m really curios in finding names that are not world-famous. We say a lot in the Call Mastery. World-class doesn’t necessarily mean world-famous. I’m on the lookout for people doing blue collar work that are really masterful at their craft to come and talk on the Call Mastery. By virtue of my network, I don’t know a lot of those people, but I want to get to know a lot of those people. If you know them, send them my way please.
All right, David, last question. One piece of advice to leave somebody in our audience who’s pursuing mastery of the art of entrepreneurship. What would you tell them?
[00:49:20] DB: It’s two-part answer. I’d say number one, be patient. I have found that things take longer and are harder when you start an endeavor, a project, when you’re building something. I think what’s interesting here, I think God shows this to us as he gets us the story of some of the pillars of the Old Testament.
I mean, Abraham, it took 25 years after he was promised a son until that promise was fulfilled. Joseph had 17 years of adversary before he would fulfill God’s plan for his life. Moses was 40 years in the dessert. I just think about that. This is someone who had access to everything as an adopted son of Pharaoh. Then his 40 years in the dessert. It’s like we get to read these stories in a matter of minutes. But 40 years is not minutes. Well, it is to God. But to us, it’s not. Not to us.
I think there’s just example. I mean, [inaudible 00:50:13] and etc. Patience is a big part of it. I would prefer that it happens right away. God cares about our heart and there is a process. I think that’s helpful. I’d say the second part is just extending grace to ourselves. I know I can be really hard on myself. I just had a friend along the way who really just said, “Listen, God has it covered. Extend yourself grace.
When I really took hold of that, it’s just so was so helpful in so many ways. Work is toiled sometimes. It’s hard sometimes and there’s maybe one day a month, I’m just not in my A-game. You know what? That’s okay. I want to just get back on the saddle the next day. I come to expect it now. It’s fine. Whereas I might beat myself up for a week about, “Oh! I wasn’t productive.” But extending grace to ourselves.
[00:51:06] JR: Man, I struggle with that. I needed that word today. I do believe it’s essential to extend grace to yourself before you’re really effectively able to do it to others. It’s a great thing to be able to cults faith.
Hey, David. I just want to commend you for building a terrific company, for the work you’re doing to make all things new. For serving your neighbor as yourself well through these best-in-class products. Through saving the lives of thousands of children. I mean, that in and of itself makes everything you’re doing, every trial, every valley – On a personal note, I just want to thank you for consistently being one of my biggest cheerleaders. You’re one of the most encouraging people in my life. You guys, David. I don’t know. I probably expect an email a week from David telling me that he’s praying for me or words of encouragement. You’re just a tremendous friend.
Hey, if you want to be healthier while also saving the lives of malnourished children, David’s team can help. Visit previnex.com. That’s P-R-E-V-I-N-E-X.com.
David, thanks for being with me today.
[00:52:11] DB: Thanks so much, Jordan. I appreciate all that you do as well. Thanks so much.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:52:14] JR: I love David. I loved hearing those details of history that I hadn’t even heard before even though he and I have talked a number of times. Hey! I hope you enjoy this episode. If you’re enjoying the Call to Mastery, do me a favor, subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode in the future. If you’re already subscribed, take 30 seconds to go leave a review of this podcast.
Thank you so much for listening to the Call to Mastery. I’ll see you next week.
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