“Hand over your small story for a greater story.”
How Paul’s example of boasting in weaknesses compelled him to “hand over his small story for a greater story,” 2 ways Christian “self-care” should differ from the world’s, and how winning at home first leads to bigger wins at work.
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[0:00:04] JR: Hey, friend. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast. I'm Jordan Raynor. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians? Those of us who aren't pastors or religious professionals, but who work as animal breeders, glassblowers, and neurologists. That's the question we explore every week, and today I'm posing it to Cory Carlson. A former corporate America executive whose experience of the gospel led him to start a coaching practice to help you and I win at home while we are winning at the work God has given us to do.
Cory and I recently sat down to talk about how Paul's example of boasting in his weaknesses compelled Cory to, “hand over his small story for a greater story”. We share two ways that Christian self-care should differ from the world's version of this idea. We also talked about how winning at home leads to bigger wins at work. I think you guys are going to enjoy this episode with my friend Cory Carlson.
[EPISODE]
[0:01:16] JR: Cory Carlson, finally. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast.
[0:01:21] CC: Well, Jordan, thank you very much for having me. It's awesome to be with you again. I mean, we were together months ago in Tampa and I loved it. I'm grateful for the time we got to spend together and can't wait to have another conversation. What a way to kick off the new year.
[0:01:33] JR: Yeah, come on now. I told you this in Tampa. It is really rare that I take coffee meetings with no agenda, right? Like if somebody is agenda, they want to talk about something. Yeah, I'll consider it, but no agenda, whatever, but when you asked to hang on Tampa.
[0:01:47] CC: Yeah. I took a chance. I just was like, you know what? I'm coming down there for actually Redeeming Your Time retreat for the listeners. If you do another one of those, the listeners, you need to go. It was pretty powerful. It was pretty cool, right? This is like, you know what? I'm just going to see if I can spend some time with him before we do it. You said, yeah.
[0:02:03] JR: Let me tell you why I said yes, because I have become such a big fan of you and your work over the last couple of years. I loved both of your books, Rise and Go and Win at Home First. I actually read before the Rise and Go. I love this so much. I want to focus today's episode on your first book, Win at Home First. I want to start with the impetus for this book. You were sitting in a church classroom. This is now more than a decade ago, when the Holy Spirit like moved in you, take us inside that scene.
[0:02:33] CC: Yeah. I love starting off the podcast to diving in the deep end.
[0:02:37] JR: We're going all the way to the deep end.
[0:02:39] CC: Yeah. That's really, that's all we got time for, right? There should be a sense of urgency to not to talk about the real stuff and not just surface level. So, for me, I was in a leadership class. I was in Denver, Colorado. My wife and I were going to this church. When you're a high-energy charismatic guy, you get invited to be a volunteer and go through volunteer class at the church. So, that's what happened. The pastor's name is Jay Pathak. He was just awesome. I was taking notes. I loved every time he spoke. I was just love hearing and learning from his wisdom.
This particular night. He's talking about character and the importance of character for all members of the church, but especially volunteer leaders. That's something wouldn't happen and mess up the church. I'm listening. I'm taking notes and completely dialed in. All of a sudden, I heard this audible or what was audible to me. It was from the Holy Spirit of, you need to come clean of your affair. I was like, “What? Who is that? What's going on?” Just heard very clearly that I need to come clean of my affair. I had an affair a few years prior and didn't come clean of it.
[0:03:51] JR: Yeah. This is years before, right?
[0:03:54] CC: Yeah. Well, it actually was years before, probably about two, three years before without actually doing the math and thinking it all through, but yeah, about two, three years before. So, we can talk about, all those pieces along the way of anything to help the listener, but really for me, when that night is, you need to come clean of your affair. I'm like – so I started having this wrestling match with God as I'm sitting in there in this room, I have no idea what I look like to everybody else. They're all paying attention and here I am wrestling with God. I was like, “I don't need to come clean of my affair. Why would I do that? I just got promoted. We moved to Denver. I'm making more money than I had made. Life's pretty good. If I come clean of the affair that can wreck things. I'll just, I'll volunteer more, or I'll tithe more, or I'll do whatever I need to God. I don't want to come clean of my affair.”
As I'm sitting there in the room, still doing this. All of a sudden, I hear another phrase that at the time I wasn't familiar with, but it was, you need to hand over your story for a greater story. I was like, “What does that mean?” But it started, just give me some peace, which sounds really weird. I just started to have this peace. Then, so on the way home as I'm driving, thinking, all right, God. Last chance here. If my wife's awake, then I will tell her of the affair. If she's not awake, hey, that's on you. I'm not telling her about it. Well, I get home and she is asleep, so I didn't have to tell her.
Well, the next day I just, it came flooding back in that I need to come clean of my affair. I needed to hand over my story for a greater story and eventually, that night I ended up telling my wife. Thankfully the Holy Spirit came over her to say that it was going to be okay. That does not mean that it was cupcakes and balloons at the Carlson household. There were doors slammed, and yelling, and rightfully so, because I was just a jerk for doing something like that. But over the course of weeks, which led to months, which led to years was us just each growing closer individually to Jesus, us growing closer as a couple to Jesus. We had community helping us. We were going to different classes, counseling through the church and just a lot of cool things took place. I'm very, very grateful for the restoration of our marriage. This summer it'll be 25 years, which is pretty darn cool and powerful.
[0:06:19] JR: Praise God.
[0:06:20] CC: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
[0:06:21] JR: I love it. You had this big job. You're running large sales teams in corporate America with all this happening. You said something in the book that I thought was just super insightful and more self-aware than most people. I want to read this from Win at Home First, “Before I came clean about my affair, I was trying to offset the defeat I was feeling in my personal life with the wins at work. I thought I know I'm not winning at home, but if I can win it work, I will be okay.” I'm just like projecting here, right, like reflecting back. But to me, I’m like, you know I've written a lot about the work beneath our work. That's what this sounds like to me as I read this. You correct me if I'm not, we're using your work as a fig leaf to cover your shame. You were using it almost as a form of self-salvation, even though you would have never used those words. Am I reading that right?
[0:07:18] CC: Yeah. You're absolutely correct. I mean, I remember even thinking like beyond those sentences and what that meant, like I remember having thoughts of, well, if I make enough money, then my wife won’t want to leave me, or if I make enough money, then I can tithe more. I'll be seen as a good man, or if I make enough money and then which leads to maybe other businesses I could start or what have you. I can employ more people. I can be a blessing that way. So, I'm going to go do all these amazing things to the kingdom and basically keep my skeleton the closet.
[0:07:54] JR: Man, what broke you of that thinking?
[0:07:55] CC: What broke me of that thinking, well, not only was there that night for sure, which we talked about, but when we moved from Kansas City to Denver. I remember my wife at one point said, “Hey, we should start going to church again.” I was dragging my feet on that because I didn't want to go to church knowing I had the skeleton in my closet. I mean, I at least had some moral compass, I had some character be like, “Hey, I know what I did was wrong. I was in a bad place.” Anyway, so I was there, but my wife said, “Let's start going to church.”
We started going church and God started putting cool guys around me that I never – who were talking about their brokenness. I had never been around that before. It just seemed like the people I'd always been around with at different times were, was all surface-level talk. Let's talk about sports. Let's talk about the weather, but God was putting me around these different men who were talking about struggles in their marriage, or maybe a guy had a challenge with porn addiction, or how they were not feeling fulfilled at work or lacking purpose, but all of them were still trying to point towards growing in their faith with Jesus. What do we need to do about it?
This just became like my small group and the people I was spending time with. Even though I didn't know it at the time, God was using community to start to soften my heart that I could be loved and received for even my brokenness. My brokenness, my mistake was not going to define me and that God wasn't done with me. Even though I didn't know all these at the time, that was what was happening. When that night happened in Denver, when it was like, “Hey, you need to come clean your affair.”
There have been months leading up to it unbeknownst to me that God was using this community, these banner brothers sharing their brokenness, but yet they were still growing closer to God. I was like, “This is my story now.” I mean, this can happen. This is happening. That's kind of why I broke free of it because I realized that I could be loved even in my brokenness. God would take me as I am, but he didn't want me to stay there.
[0:10:01] JR: Yeah. Amen. It's so good. Cory, you know this podcast all about how does the gospel shape our work? I think one of the clearest ways I see the gospel influencing your work is what we've been talking about. This is a picture of 2 Corinthians 12, where Paul says that he will boast in his weaknesses, right? Because when we do boast in our weaknesses, Christ gets the glory. Not only did you confess your affair and boast in that weakness to your wife. I mean, in this book, in this work you're doing, you're confessing this deepest, darkest skeleton to the world. Talk more about why you choose to boast in your weaknesses publicly, because it's one thing to do it privately with your wife. Why do it publicly?
[0:10:45] CC: The main reason is to hand over my story for a greater story, like that started to me, that's what it means all the way to this today is I'm handing over my story, my brokenness. I try to be vulnerable when it makes sense. It's not like I'm just running around, telling everyone in the world. “Hey, I had an affair.” I mean, because then it gets discredited and it's just –
[0:11:03] JR: Exactly.
[0:11:04] CC: It doesn't mean anything. So, in the right place, I'll share that. But even though I'm not even sharing just the affair piece, just other pieces that it has just became basically my life mission is I want to help connect people to greater performance, even more significant purpose. That is my purpose statement. So, greater performance for me is I help clients win at home and win at work like that is what my focus is. That's what I do for a living now. I'm an executive coach and a keynote speaker.
I left corporate because I just felt this push to go help more leaders. When I was in corporate, my last job was, I was president of sales for a national contractor and I would travel around the country, helping leaders both at home and work. I would talk to all the sales team, if I went to travel to Nashville to be with that sales individual or New York to be with the sales rep up there, wherever I was, “Hey, are you dating your spouse? Are you being intentional with your kids or are you journaling? Are you getting quiet time?” Then that was the focus on the home piece, but on the work piece, it was, “Hey, are you blocking out time in your schedule to do business development or proposal follow-up? Are you having think time on your calendar?” Like, helping them win at work and when at home.
The back half of that purpose statement is to connect them to an even more significant purpose. If I was working with a believer, it was, “Hey, how's your walk with Jesus going?” If I was not working with a believer or they stated their position that they weren’t wanting to talk about faith. I'm just helping them see life as a greater picture like, who are you serving? How can you give more of yourself, right? Give more than take. When I saw it made a difference in these, the sales teams’ lives and our profitability, our EBITDAR improved. I was like, “I want to do this for a living.”
That's when I left corporate to become a, be a coach. That's what I do now is where I'm just, I'm trying to help men win at home, win at work, and then connect them to Jesus in a better way, more quiet time and reading scripture. That's what I want to do, because at the end of the day, I mean, Jordan, just like a lot of your life mission, it's what it’s about. I mean, it's a great commission and trying to go and help and make disciples. So, for me, I love business. I like P&L. I like strategy. It's a game. It's a win-win, but at the end of the day, that doesn't matter at all if we've allowed our marriages to crumble. We don't have a relationship with our kids, our personal health isn't going very well. So, to me, it's a both and, like you have to be successful in the family room and in the boardroom. It's not an either or it's a both and. A lot of leaders don't know how to do that.
[0:13:48] JR: I agree. I like to go back to the how, here in a minute, but first, as I hear you talk, it's clear that you're ambitious for your work, right? I know from prior conversations with you that that ambition is largely proper and biblical and righteous, right? I know that you see this work as a vehicle for the glory of God and the good of others. That said, we just talked a few minutes ago about that this dark side to ambition of using our work and our ambition for it to get something from it that God never designed for it to give to us. You even said in the book, “Ambition is usually centered around guilt.” For you, how do you discern if the balance of your heart is leaning towards that righteous ambition or that selfish ambition that is fueled by guilt? How do you keep this thing at check?
[0:14:40] CC: Yeah. I mean, fantastic question. The only way I can keep it in check is to continue quiet time praying about it. Asking God, as David talks about Psalms. Search my heart and know my everlasting ways. How am I doing on this God and taking it to him? I miss it some days for sure. I remember a few years ago, actually, one to two years ago. I took six weeks off my podcast. I have a podcast that went home first, which you've been a guest on. I was finding myself going to Libsyn, which is for those who aren't familiar with podcasts. It is a third party that pretty much counts all the downloads, where they're from, and he pays attention there.
Jordan, what I was doing is I was going to Libsyn almost every day to see what my downloads were, and how am I doing. If they were great, then I thought I was the man. But if they didn't go well, then I obviously thought I was awful. So, when I was finding, Jordan and through quiet time, I felt challenged that I was making my podcast an idol. I was taking my identity to my podcast and I felt through quiet time, a conviction to hit pause on the podcast for however long it may be, so I did.
I stopped recording my podcast episodes. I stopped going to Libsyn, and I just treated my podcast with open hands of like, God, this is yours. Do what you want with it. So, I gave it up. About six weeks in to that, kind of out of the blue and a quiet time, I felt I was given permission if I wanted to, to go back to my podcast, so I did. Since then, I go to Libsyn, maybe once a quarter. That's just more from a number standpoint. I like to track numbers in my business KPIs, but it's in a healthy place.
[0:16:29] JR: Man, but kudos to you to being willing to press pause on the podcast after you've recognized, okay, this is an idol. I love how practical. Oh yeah, if you're checking your analytics 10 times a day, 10 times a day and your emotions can correlate to those downloads, your spiritual health can be correlated to those download numbers. I don’t know what it is for you listener, right? Your sales numbers or your Instagram likes. Man, that's probably a good sign that that's an idol that needs to be placed in check. All right. Hey, let's roll up our sleeves a little bit more, a little bit further about what it looks like to win a home first, because I would argue that one of the ways the gospel should shape the work of believers is that we should care about winning at home.
I'll be honest with you, man. A lot of times, at least for me, the work I do at home of loving my spouse and loving my kids is way harder than the work I do in my office. In my flesh, I would much rather just focus on winning at work, because the wins come so much more easily, and the wins come with, frankly, a whole lot more praise of man. I'm assuming the same has been true for you throughout your career. If so, how does the example of Christ compel you to do the hard work of winning at home first? Have you thought a lot about this?
[0:17:49] CC: Yes, I have. I mean, to win at work is easier, right? There's KPIs and our employees, our team members, they have to do it. At home, you say something, and kids roll their eyes or my wife's not always supportive of everything I want to do as far as, hey, let's have a deep conversation family, around the dinner table. I get rolled eyes and it's hard where at work, you don't get that, because pretty much they have to do it, because everyone's getting paid to agree or obviously there's healthy conflict. I get that, but there's a level of agreeance or let's just push this forward. Yes, let's sit through this boring strategy session together, or let's have all our one-on-one meetings.
Anyways, for me, what I just noticed is we do all these things at work, vision statements, and one-on-one meetings, and annual planning, but we don't do it at home. We're intentional at work, but we wing it at home and that's just a mess. Even as you talk about the great commission, go and make disciples. Many people took that literally and like go, almost like go leave your house and go make disciples. To me, it's like, no, we have to start in the home, and how am I raising my kids, and how am I being a spiritual leader in my home? Am I talking about God? Not only am I going to church, but is God brought up throughout the week? Not just a family prayer, but how are we talking about decision-making, and how are we talking about treating people or generosity?
I just felt convicted that, hey, I don't want to go out and make disciples and do amazing things out there, but yet I've neglected my home, and my kids are a train wreck, my marriage is crumbling. It had to be both.
[0:19:32] JR: Yeah. The example of Christ compels us to do hard things too. Hard things that don't give us immediate gratification, like doing the hard work of winning at home. Hey, one more question before we get super practical about what this looks like. I think this is an interesting case to make that winning at home first is essential if you want sustainable wins at work. You've been beating around that bush, because, listen, I know plenty of people who are winning at work without winning at home. So, make the case for, if you can, how winning at home helps us win at work in a more sustainable way.
[0:20:09] CC: Yeah, absolutely. I think for those individuals out there, whether they're a listener to this, they may not be listening to podcasts, but those that are out there. If you win at work, but you did not win at home, eventually all your winnings are split 50-50, right? If you've got to get a divorce. I mean, all those amazing winnings you just did, you now have to give it up. I mean, that's just one thing to look at. I don't see the shallow perspective, but that's, it could be a reality.
[0:20:32] JR: That’s pretty good.
[0:20:33] CC: Even if it never gets to that point of divorce and you and your spouse are just roommates for the rest of your life, it's not a thriving marriage. It's just, you're just roommates. You can perform better at work if you win at home first. Just take the idea of if you and your spouse getting a fight at 7 AM at home, arguing about who's picking up who from school or whatever the argument is, but you're arguing at seven when you go to that 9 AM meeting, you are not bringing your best self, because while you're in the meeting, trying to show up, give your best, you may get a text at your phone or on your smartwatch that throws you off your game.
Throughout the day, as you're trying to think about, hey, how do I deliver the best proposal or how do I write creatively or give a strong presentation to the customer? Whatever it is, at some point in there, you're thinking about that argument you had with your spouse. As the day progresses, as you get closer to say 3:00 you start to think, “Oh, man, when I get home, I'm going to say this.” Then she's probably going to say this or he's probably going to say that, so I'm going to say this. So, we start having these mental gymnastics as the day progresses of what we're going to say for our reentry back to the home.
If you're winning at home, you can give your best at work, because you could be focused. You don't need to think about what is my spouse thinking or doing right now. You are insane with your kids. If you've got a healthy relationship with your kids, you don't need to worry about rebellious activity. You don't need to worry about them lying or being mischievous or what are they shenanigans are up to because you've been winning home first. You've been investing in them. You know who their best friends are. You know who they're dating. You've encouraged them, maybe they are doing their own quiet time and they're journaling. You know where their heart is at, and you can go to work, and give it your best, because you know home is in great condition.
[0:22:27] JR: That's good. Just to be clear, even if winning at home first didn't make us win more at work, it wouldn't matter, because God has called us to excellence in all things. Period. Full stop. That's it. Right? Not the achievement of it, but the pursuit of excellently stewarding. These spouses, these kids that he's put under our care and the work he has given our hands to do. All right, so what does it look practically to win at home first? I know you wrote a whole book about this, right? Maybe just give us two or three thoughts of what this looks like in practice here in 2024, Cory.
[0:23:03] CC: Yeah, absolutely. Matthew 6:33. “Seek first the kingdom, and all the rest of these will be unto you.” That's at the end of a verse of — numerous verses on anxiety and worry. So much for us to win at home first. The book is in four parts. The first part is You. The second part is Marriage. The third part is Parenting. The fourth part is Work. Which is – I think the how the flow of our life should be. We have got to take care of ourselves first before we can be incredible spouses, parents, leaders at work.
We have got to be in a good spot. So, how to get practical is where are you at individually? Are you getting your quiet time? Are you journaling? Are you in prayer? Are you reading scripture? So, what does that look like in your life, and being honest about it? There are a lot of times in my life when I will even talk to leaders is like, stop all who listen on the podcasts. I know we're on a podcast right now, but there are times not to listen to podcasts. There are times not to be listening to the radio in the car, just driving silence and use that time to pray.
[0:24:11] JR: Yeah. This is dissent from the kingdom of noise and redeeming your time. 100%. Yeah. If you're not doing that, turn this podcast off now.
[0:24:17] CC: Yes. Yeah. Then you talk about in Redeeming Your Time and let others curate your news for you.
[0:24:23] JR: Yes. That's something I have been doing and I encourage others to do is like turn off the news. The other thing, turn off all notifications on your phone. I know you do that as well, but for those listeners, it's just like we do not need to know Fox or CNN breaking news. We don't need to know our stock went up or down slightly unless you're a wealth manager. You don't need to know all those components. So, let’s turn off a lot of that noise. I think that's a big piece. Are you taking care of yourself? How are you doing?
In the book I give a framework for five capitals, which was taught to me, where in these five capitals if you live them in the right order, it's a life to the full. The first is spiritual. Then relational. The third is physical. Forth is intellectual. The fifth is financial. It's a great framework to think through of decision-making, of daily activity, of goal planning. It's got all kinds of different benefits from it, but that's all in that you part of the book where it's making sure that you are in a good spot because if you're not, you can't lead others.
We all know what it's like when we get our capitals, so those five capitals in the wrong order, even if you don't know what they were if we get them in the wrong order, we're too worried about money or physically we're too tired. We know what those days are like when we lay our heads on the pillow at night. We're exhausted. It just didn't feel like a good day. However, if we get those capitals in the right order, we've had our quiet time. We've had time to pray. We've script — done our scripture. We had good time with friends. We got to work out. Man, we lay our head down on the pillow, we're like that was a good day. That's good stuff.
[0:26:00] JR: Yeah. That's good. You quoted this coach of yours in the book as saying, I love this quote. You said, “You have to know yourself, so you can forget yourself so that you can freely give yourself.” I think that's the – I think we get too hung up on spiritual disciplines a lot. I love what John Ortberg once said, he said, “Hey, listen, if a spiritual discipline isn't making you more like Christ, isn't putting you in a position to more freely give yourself to others than drop the spiritual discipline.” Because that's a point of the spiritual discipline, right? That's what you're saying is, ‘Hey, we got to know ourselves,’ right? We have to be immersed in the word and who Christ says we are, who God says that we are so that we can freely give ourselves to our spouses, to our kids, and to the work. Is that what you're saying by quoting your coach there?
[0:26:51] CC: Absolutely. Yup. I mean, that's fantastic. I mean, I even love that spiritual discipline as you're talking it’s make me think. I mean, yeah, there are times we've all just read scripture. We've all just done the morning devotion to check the box. It's really finding the spiritual rhythm that moves it from head to heart, like where you're really wanting, do you look forward to your morning routine, because you're growing intimacy with God. For the listener and even reminder for myself, those times, if I'm not feeling that, I need to find a new way to read scripture or do it differently.
That's really what it's all about is, because if I'm in a good spot, spiritually, mentally, physically, then I can go lead others. I can do well, but we all know it's like when we stayed up too late watching a movie, or a football game, or had that extra drink. We shouldn't have or whatever the case may be for the listener when we don't lead ourselves well, we can't go lead others because we're tired. We feel defeated. The self-limiting beliefs are louder than normal. So, that's why we got to take care of ourselves so that we can go lead others.
[0:28:00] JR: Where does this differ from the worldly wisdom that I hate, that's so much about self-care? What's the demarcation point here?
[0:28:07] CC: Yeah. I think the big demarcation in that, at least for me is I've got to go to God, to my creator, to make sure that the power is not within me. I mean, it's not within me to go do that. So, I'm not going to pull anything out. I mean, I need to make sure I'm going to God for that. I'm seeking him first in my morning routine, and throughout the day, right? As Paul talks about. Never cease praying. So, I want to make sure I'm doing that. Basically, letting him lead me. Telling him, lead me God, as supposed to sometimes this new world discussion is do whatever you want. You be you. No. We can't just go do that. It's letting God lead us and allowing us to basically just submit to him. Part of that is taking care of ourselves, right? We can't do anything for anybody if we're dead. It's really just who are you putting first. I think some of this self-care you put yourself first. Well, if we do it the way God calls us, we're putting God first.
[0:29:16] JR: Yeah. I know. I think that's good. I think Christian self-care differs from the world, in at least two ways. One, it does start with God, as you said. Number two, self isn't the end. The purpose of self-care isn't for more focus on self. It's for more focus on service in the model of Christ, right? It's for the glory of God and the good of others. It's not ultimately for me and staying in my own place. It's to get back to the good works that God prepared in advance for us to do. Hey, in your book, you talk about tons of different practical things to help us win at home first, and you're barring a lot of stuff from corporate America and applying it to the home to be more intentional at home. I'm really curious, as you know in Redeeming Your Time, I advocate for budgeting time to work on all the projects you've committed to professionally. Do you personally also budget time to work, “on your family” projects related to leading your family well?
[0:30:15] CC: Yeah. budgeting time. Then also just going back to an earlier part of our conversation. KPIs at work. We don't have KPIs at home. Well, I actually do. I try to put some KPIs in there, which goes into budgeting time as well, that I'm thinking about items. For some examples is Holly and I. Holly's my wife. Two dates a month. I want to make sure we're doing two dates a month because if we don't do that, we can drift and become roommates. So, for us, it's two dates. We've been doing that, well, quite honestly, really ever since I came clean in my affair, that was just part of what we needed to do to make sure we were connected.
I also want to make sure I have one-on-one dates with my kids, whether it's ice cream or it's coffee. I'm tracking that as well. The other thing Jordan, is one-on-one overnight. We asked we do a family vacation, which is cool, but man, these one-on-one overnights with not only my wife but also when I do with each of the kids. Man, it's so cool and powerful.
[0:31:12] JR: I like that a lot. I think that's super helpful. Hey, you've listened to the show before. You know we wrap up with the same three questions every time. Number one, which books do you find yourself gifting most frequently to others? Other than, of course, Rise and Go, and Win at Home First.
[0:31:27] CC: I'm not just saying I told you this to your face in Tampa.
[0:31:30] JR: You did.
[0:31:30] CC: I do give, The Word Before Work. It's part of my morning routine. I think I told you some of that when we saw each other. But the books that I love right now that I'm sharing a lot with clients, two books, The Road Less Stupid.
[0:31:43] JR: So good.
[0:31:44] CC: Yes. Mind Shift, Erwin McManus new book.
[0:31:49] JR: It's good. Hey, who do you want to hear in this podcast talking about how their faith shapes the work they do in the world?
[0:31:54] CC: I think you go to Erwin McManus. Get him on and talk about that exactly.
[0:31:57] JR: Not a bad idea.
[0:31:58] CC: Just talk about that book, Mind Shift, but also why was he strategic in trying to go for a new audience?
[0:32:05] JR: Yeah. It's good. I like that.
[0:32:06] CC: It's not the existing Christians have it all figured out.
[0:32:09] JR: That's right. Well, that’s in God's common grace. God's wisdom is in the believer and the unbeliever. Hey, before we sign off, you're talking to this global audience of Mere Christians, very diverse vocationally. What they share is a deep love of Jesus and a desire to do work that glorifies God and does good for others. What's one thing you want to leave them with before we hang up?
[0:32:31] CC: That you are loved, and then you get new mercies every morning. Lamentations 3:22, through 23. Yeah, I know for myself and just others is, yeah, they just, they get an argument and they yelled at their kid for brushing their teeth, taking too long to brush teeth, they're getting a fight with their spouse, or maybe they didn't show up their best to a client. Therefore, they think they suck, and they don't think they can bring their best today that God has done with them, and they're discouraged. The devil loves that. The devil loves when we beat ourselves up and we operate less than.
I think for all the listeners is just, no, man, God loves you where you're at and you get new mercies every day, so go get them. Love your spouse well, lead your kids well, who cares what you did a month ago or a year ago in that regard. Don't beat yourself up. Well, that's the devil's game, but God's game is new mercies every day. Yeah, just go get them.
[0:33:24] JR: It's good. Bro, I want to commend you for the terrific work you do every day for the glory of God and the good of others. For reminding us of what it looks like for the gospel to free us from the work beneath our work, freeing us to do the hard work of winning at home. Thank you for reminding us of the power of boasting in our weaknesses in a way that brings greater glory to God's grand story that he's writing for the entire world. Friends, I highly recommend Cory's great book, Win at Home First, go pick it up wherever books are sold. Cory, brother, thank you for hanging out with us today. Appreciate your time, brother.
[0:34:00] CC: Thank you, Jordan. Thank you for the work you do. I'm learning a lot from you and every book of yours, except for the new one. Darn it. That's coming. I can't wait.
[0:34:09] JR: It's coming. Dropped at January 30th, right before this podcast drops. A couple of couple of weeks before this podcast drops. It'll be in your hands.
[0:34:15] CC: Yeah. It's awesome. But no, thank you for your work and just showing us. Yeah, how to live out the gospel.
[0:34:21] JR: Hey, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. If you've got somebody you'd love to hear on this podcast, even if that somebody is you. I want to hear about it, @jordanraynor.com/contact. Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in this week. I'll see you next time.
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