How masters seek out feedback
Jordan Raynor sits down with his good friend Christy Adams, a masterful educator, to talk about why finding your “one thing” requires a ton of career experimentation, the importance of getting feedback from those you serve (even if they’re middle schoolers), and how the Lord grants us power as we achieve mastery of our crafts.
Pre-order Jordan's new book, Master of One, and enter to win a European cruise for two, dinner with Jordan in Barcelona, and a private tour of the magnificent La Sagrada Familia: https://jordanraynor.com/trip
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[0:00:05.3] JR: Hey there, welcome to The Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. Hey, if you’re loving this podcast, go preorder Master of One my new book that is going to be released on January 21st. And when you do, go to jordanraynor.com to make sure you enter to win the trip to Europe I am giving away for you and a friend. That’s right, you’re going to go on a seven night cruise, you’re going to go tour La Sagrada Familia, the world’s largest church created by true master of one, who I profile in the book.
And then, I’m going to fly to Barcelona and I’m going to take you and your friend to dinner and who knows, maybe we’ll even record a little episode of The Call to Mastery while we’re in Barcelona. Go preorder the book, enter the sweepstakes right now at jordanraynor.com.
Hey listen, with the book coming out, right around the corner, I thought you guys might want to hear from some of the masters that I share their stories of in the book, right? A few weeks ago, we had Jeff Heck, of Monday Night Brewing and today, we have another master who I talk about in the book extensively. Her name is Christy Adams. She’s one of my best friends. She’s not world famous but she is world class at what she does.
She’s a world-class educator. She’s been a middle school Spanish teacher for 15 years, has consistently received the highest marks in performance reviews. I know Christy’s former principle who cannot stop singing her praises. She’s exceptional at what she does and by the way, she loves Jesus very deeply. Christy and I sat down. We talked about why finding your one thing vocationally requires tons of experimentation in your career, tons of trial and error.
We talk about the importance of seeking out feedback from those you serve in your career. Even if, by the way, they’re middle schoolers. That’s an interesting take on this conversation and we also talked about how the Lord often grants us power as we achieve mastery of our crafts. I really think you’re going to enjoy this very down to earth conversation. Without further ado, here’s my friend Christy Adams.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:02:08.3] JR: Christy Adams, hello again. We meet again.
[0:02:13.1] CA: Yes.
[0:02:13.5] JR: Take two of The Call to Mastery.
[0:02:15.8] CA: I thought we weren’t going to mention take one?
[0:02:16.7] JR: We’re going to mention it. For those listening, Christy and I recorded this conversation, I don’t know, two months ago and you behest, your commanding, we’re doing take two, you’re the only person who has demanded a retake so what’s going on, why are we redoing this Christy?
[0:02:33.1] CA: I could not string a sentence together the last time that we talked, you asked me what my favorite book was and I couldn’t even think of a title of a book.
[0:02:43.9] JR: You got a character out, that Harry Potter kid, that guy. You know, what’s funny though, I think I mentioned this to you. As soon as we got done recording, my producer Chris came in, he’s like, “That’s going to be your audience’s favorite episode,” because you’re not a professional speaker, you’re not an entrepreneur or a podcast or somebody who talks for a living.
You have a seemingly ordinary – I don’t mean that offensive at all – You have seemingly ordinary but beautifully, eternally significant job like the majority of our audience. You are the audience, although you probably don’t listen to this show so you’re not technically –
[0:03:20.3] CA: I do listen.
[0:03:21.4] JR: – my audience and I’ve said before, I don’t want this to be a show that only features people who get paid to talk. I want this to celebrate the goodness of every job and teachers and plumbers and I was just talking to somebody else about getting this janitor on who is like super well-formed theology of work that I can’t wait to talk to. So all that to say, thanks for doing it again even though you’ve never looked more uncomfortable in your life.
[0:03:45.7] CA: I told you that when I was a pre-teen, I was in a show and the bench that I was supposed to sit on in this show was not set properly and I fell off the bench and I flashed the whole audience and I said, that experience was not as embarrassing as our first recording of this podcast. Thank you for doing this again.
[0:04:05.4] JR: We’re on the up and up again. We’re setting he bar super low for this episode which is good. I mean, we’re going to blow people’s minds with how adequate this episode of The Call to Mastery is going to be. I’m really excited about this. When I started writing Called to Create. Sorry, not Called to Create, Master of One, I’m on the wrong book.
I made a list of basically just the most exceptional people I knew, people that I really wanted to talk to and you were one of the first people that I jotted down and – because one, I mean, I knew you – first and foremost, we go to church together, we vacation together, you’re an exceptional mother but I also knew through bits and pieces of what your husband has shared in the past that you’re also an exceptional professional, in your case a teacher.
So I called your husband up. I was like “Hey, am I like reading this wrong? Is your wife actually not as great as she sounds as to be amazing?” “No, she’s the real deal.” I’m really excited about this. Your ‘one thing’ kind of in the vernacular of this book is super specific. You have been teaching middle school Spanish for how long?
[0:05:08.3] CA: 15 years.
[0:05:09.2] JR: 15 years? Okay. It took you a lot of time to kind of figure out what that thing was going to be for you professionally. I talk a lot about this in chapter five of the book, this value of exploring lots of different options in your career. You had a lot of different career interests which I’m eager to explore.
Can you talk about kind of that path of experimenting and figuring out what you want to do when you grow up?
[0:05:31.5] CA: Sure. I had like you said, a lot of different ideas when I was little, you know, zoologist, an actress on Broadway, I mean –
[0:05:41.2] JR: I didn’t know that.
[0:05:42.3] CA: Yeah, definitely.
[0:05:43.5] JR: Interesting, yeah.
[0:05:44.8] CA: Lots of different things and in high school, I started really focusing in on becoming an eye doctor and so I took the opportunity to do an internship with an eye doctor in our area for several months and quickly found out that that was not what I wanted to do with my life at all. It was –
[0:06:04.8] JR: As you’re quoted in Master of One as saying, “– because of the discussing eye juice.”
[0:06:08.1] CA: It was horrible and I thought I wanted to do that.
[0:06:12.8] JR: No offense to ophthalmologists, yeah.
[0:06:15.4] CA: Thank you for what you do.
[0:06:17.0] JR: Thank you for –
[0:06:18.3] CA: Yes, you changed my life forever because you gave me the gift of sight so thank you but also, how do you do what you do? That was horrible. I was really thankful for that opportunity because I did not, you know – even though I declared premed, going in my freshman year of college, I was able to quickly change that after my internship because I realized that was not what I wanted to do.
[0:06:40.9] JR: Wait, this internship with the ophthalmologist, were you in high school, were you in college?
[0:06:45.5] CA: Yes, I was a senior in high school.
[0:06:46.9] JR: Interesting. Who does – was that a requirement for you to do an internship in high school?
[0:06:51.1] CA: Yes.
[0:06:53.1] JR: I’ve never heard of that before.
[0:06:54.6] CA: That’s good.
[0:06:54.4] JR: Okay, great. You figure out you don’t want to be an ophthalmologist.
[0:06:57.8] CA: Right, and then I went through another myriad of ideas. I like a lot of different things but after my senior year of high school, I went on a mission trip to Mexico and we split up into different groups and my group’s translator – something went wrong with our group’s translator and so, here we were, going into the –
[0:07:18.2] JR: You make it sound like they went missing.
[0:07:20.6] CA: Yeah, it was something kind of like that. I don’t know what happened but I do remember that they said, “Oh goodness, we need somebody. Christy, you took Spanish, right?” It had been several years since I had taken it, like it was a fine class but I didn’t understand, you know, like, whatever. It was just a fine class.
I started interacting with people and using my language skills and started to realize, I really love connecting with people from different cultures and so I kind of started taking more Spanish classes and then, as I was at University of Georgia, I started tutoring middle school immigrants that lived in that area, teaching them English and just realized how much I loved middle schoolers.
To this day, I absolutely adore them. They’re the greatest age. I really don’t ever want to work with another age. They’re my favorite. My life kind of started to take that path where I focused on Spanish education and teaching English as a second language.
[0:08:25.9] JR: Yeah, it started with this like small bet that you placed in college, right? I mean, the first small that was, “I’m going to translate Spanish to English on this missions trip,” then it was a slightly bigger bet of, “I’m going to tutor these kids and help them learn English.” You just kind of progressed in place in bigger and bigger bets.
What was your first job out of school? It was teaching, right?
[0:08:46.8] CA: Right.
[0:08:47.3] JR: Where was this in Georgia?
[0:08:49.1] CA: It was in Gainesville Georgia and we had a high population of immigrants in that area and so my first job was teaching Spanish to English speakers and then I also taught English to Spanish speakers.
[0:09:02.6] JR: I can’t remember if I wrote about this in Master of One, maybe you can tell me but part of what I appreciate about your story, I think a lot of people when they try to ‘discern’ their calling, focus exclusively inwardly. “What do I want to do. What am I interested in?” What I appreciate about you, I think there’s a lot of wisdom here, is listening to the Holy Spirit nudging through other people outside of yourself. They are pointing at things saying “Hey, you might be good at this.” Now, the people on your mission trip were just doing it because they desperately needed somebody to translate Spanish.
That ended up being – I mean, the lord ended up working through those people to put you on this career path, right?
[0:09:38.8] CA: Yeah.
[0:09:39.3] JR: Yeah, I love it. You found your thing. You’ve been committed pursuing mastery of your craft for 15 years. Many of our listeners haven’t figured that out, what advice would you give to somebody who is yet to choose and commit to one thing vocationally.
[0:09:55.6] CA: I mean, there’s so many ways to explore your options now. I would definitely, if you’re at a stage in your life where you can do internships like I was, I think that is super helpful to find out what you’re interested in and then what you’re not interested in so you don’t have to waste a whole lot of time. Shadowing people, apprenticing when you can, doing as much online research to see, you know, what possibilities there are.
But ask people around you for godly advice, you know? This is probably cheesy but I love that – I think it’s a Mark Twain quote where he says, “Don’t ask yourself what the world needs, ask yourself what makes you come alive and then go out and do” – well, I do love the part about coming alive but I do also think you should ask yourself what the world needs because that’s a way to glorify God and ask yourself like how you can glorify God and serve others through what God has given you.
[0:10:50.4] JR: Two things that stand out to me there. One is, asking others, right? Which we already talked about. This idea that work is not primarily a means of serving us, primarily about making us happy, it’s about making other people happy and serving the world, right? With that comes vocational happiness. You get to love what you do by getting really good at it which I think you would agree with.
But the second thing is this idea of like little bits, I talk a lot about this in Master of One, right? Place as small a bet as you possibly can and increase the size of that bet in your career as things start to work and you find things that you’re gifted at. I don’t think we’ve actually ever talked about this. Our kids play soccer on Saturdays, together we’ve never had this conversation somehow so how do you think about this in parenting?
There’s two– I have heard two arguments here, right? One is, this author talks about this in his book Range, the difference between Tiger Woods and Roger Fedora, right? Tiger Woods’ dad put a golf club in his hand when he was three. It was like, “This is your thing. I’m going to choose your one thing for you when you’re four years old. It’s the only thing you’re ever going to do.” Whereas Roger Fedora, explored widely, right? Experimented with a ton of different sports and activities. What are you doing with your kids? What are you and Chris being methodical and intentional about having them explore a lot of different hobbies and things outside school?
[0:12:15.9] CA: We talk about this a lot because our children are a lot like, they are interested in so many different things and our oldest in particular – we have four kids right now. I say right now because we’re fostering so that number changes but our oldest child is good at so much and she’s super strong but she doesn’t like to commit to any one thing so we have had this – So no, I don’t have an answer for you but we’ve had this discussion.
How far do we push her in that because you know, we think she would be really great at it but if the passion is not there – and I know your passion’s going to kind of come and go and stuff but if the passion’s not there, why are we really pushing her towards this? I don’t know the answer to that question Jordan.
[0:13:00.4] JR: I don’t either, that’s why I’m asking you. I’m a big fan of this book Grit by Angela Duckworth and she talks about this concept of the ‘hard thing rule’, right? Her take on this, and I support this wholeheartedly in Master of One is like, explore widely. Try lots of different stuff, especially when you’re young and I’m a big believer. I think we ask kids to commit way too early to their one thing like I think the Tiger Woods model is insane in a lot of ways. Explore widely but at some point, especially as they get older in high school, start pushing them towards doubling down on something.
Angela Duckworth’s rule is, everybody in the house to do one ‘hard thing’ outside of school so it could be soccer, ballet, a violin or whatever. And the rule is, you have to stick with it for the entire season or some natural stopping point so if it’s violin, I don’t know, six months or something like that? Whatever it is.
And then, when they get in high school, they have to do something for two years. They have to commit to one thing for two years. I think that’s an interesting way to think about it, I like that.
All right. You and I sat down at that weird bizarre restaurant for the interview for Master of One. One of the weirder experiences of my life. You and your husband and Me and Kiera and we talked about purposeful practice and how masters of any vocation deliberately seek out feedback, right?
From people, from whoever they serve. Their bosses, customers, investors. You’re really big on this. You’ve thought a lot about this. Talk about what this seeking out of feedback looks like as a teacher.
[0:14:34.3] CA: Yeah, I ask for feedback from my administrators, from my colleagues but my most valuable feedback is definitely from my students. I give them surveys quite often, asking them about lessons that we’ve done. I asked them about their life, just to kind of get yeah –
[0:14:52.4] JR: Like in the survey, you’re like, “Hey, how did I do on this and by the way, how is everything at home?”
[0:14:55.9] CA: “How is your life?” Yeah. Actually just recently, I had a student say, “Well, eighth grade is pretty,” what was the word? “Deplorable,” or she used some funny word but, “You’re one of the only things that is making this year bearable,” and it broke my heart that a student is with me for 47 minutes and I’m a bright spot in her life but it was kind of good for me to recalibrate like, “Hey, what I’m doing really does matter,” but I ask them for feedback on lessons. I ask them, you know, “What am I doing that is helpful to you? What are we doing that’s not helpful?” You know, learning styles, that kind of thing.
Just the other day a kid made an off hand comment as he was leaving. He just seemed to – we were talking about a quiz that they had done. It was horrible. As they were leaving, the kid just turned around and he said, “Senior Adams, I think we did so poorly because we weren’t used to typing out the words, we were used to writing the words and this test was online,” whatever.
It really made me think, “Oh yeah, I hadn’t taught them how to use accent marks and some of their phones were changing their answer,” you know. I was able, the next day to say like, “Guys, we’re on the same team and my goal for you is to be successful and I don’t want you to feel like, ‘Oh man, I failed this test because you know, I took it on this thing that changed my answers,’” or whatever.
“So we’re going to take a paper and pencil test and we’re going to try it again and they were so excited,” and I’m like, “You can always give me feedback. We’re on the same team,” and helps me modify my lessons and helps me connect with them because they see that I take their feedback and actually make changes to what I do and figure out what needs to be done differently so that they get it because that’s the goal.
[0:16:37.3] JR: I kind of imagine that – I mean, I don’t remember high school very well, certainly not middle school but I don’t remember a teacher –
[0:16:44.5] CA: I don’t remember middle school at all.
[0:16:45.5] JR: Really?
[0:16:46.0] CA: Yes.
[0:16:46.7] JR: Maybe that’s why you love middle school, like reliving middle school through them, which sounds terrible. I don’t remember a teacher ever asking me for feedback. The same thing is true in business. I’m shocked at like how many businesses don’t survey their customers and just ask like “What’s working, what’s not working?”
One question I have for you though, that would be – the first time you send a survey to middle schoolers who are known for being relentless, that would be a little intimidating to me. Were you intimidated?
[0:17:14.4] CA: They’re extremely honest, yes.
[0:17:18.2] JR: There’s got to be some fear of that like, really honest –
[0:17:21.6] CA: Yeah, I guess so. I mean, after 15 years, it’s kind of like, “Well, I know there’s going to be someone that’s going to say like, ‘No homework,’ or ‘Just let us have party time,’” or something. But yeah, they’re brutally honest.
[0:17:34.3] JR: What is your kind of cadence for integrating that feedback into your changing lesson plans? How frequently are you getting their feedback? Is itt once a year, once a quarter, what is that?
[0:17:45.1] CA: I definitely do it once a quarter but I mean, I try to get informal feedback as much as I can, I try to listen to them when they don’t’ know that I’m listening. I look at results from their quizzes, you know. As we’re going over stuff, just like, I ask them, “Did this make sense to you?” You know? “Are you tracking? Show me on a scale of one to 10, how much do you feel like you could use this in the real world?” That kind of thing.
[0:18:08.8] JR: I think I ended up interviewing I don’t know, we’ll call it 30 people. 30 Christ followers who are exceptional at what they do for the book, for Master of One. I think the one thing that came up in every single conversation was humility. It manifested itself in a few different ways. In your case, it was this idea of like, eagerly seeking out feedback, being vulnerable and humble to admit, “I’ve been doing this for 15 years but I still don’t know everything. How can I be better?”
How else does humility play out in your kind of path to continuing to master your vocation. Are there other expressions if you know? Can I ask you to be proud about being humble? It’s basically the question.
[0:18:52.1] CA: I just think in the way that I relate with students. I have to be willing to ask for forgiveness if you know, “Yeah I raised my voice when there was really no need to or I lost my patience with you guys,” you know? They always act taken aback when I do that. I don’t think they’re used to teachers apologizing and owning up like, “Hey, I could have explained this little” –
I just think in a way that I treat them and they see that it’s okay for me to make mistakes and to take risks, you know? They see that I have to ask for forgiveness but I try to model in my class. “Hey, it’s progress not perfection. You’re not going to know all of these Spanish words, you know? It’s okay, let’s just progress each day, you know. Hey, I make mistakes with the way that you know, I handle the class or something every now and then but you know, we’re just going to keep try to progressing together.”
[0:19:42.5] JR: Do you use the word forgiveness?
[0:19:44.9] CA: Yeah.
[0:19:46.0] JR: Really?
[0:19:46.0] CA: Yes.
[0:19:47.0] JR: Interesting. That’s fascinating. That’s an odd word for them, right? That’s probably not something they hear very much?
[0:19:55.8] CA: Yeah. I mean, they always act embarrassed that I’m apologizing to them. They’re like, “We deserved it,” or whatever and I’m like “No, I shouldn’t, you know, I shouldn’t have raised my voice,” or whatever it is.
[0:20:07.2] JR: That’s funny. So you have a lot going on, I mentioned before. At least from the outside, you’re an exceptional mom. You do great job –
[0:20:14.4] CA: Thank you, I am.
[0:20:14.7] JR: – parenting your kids. You really are. Pat yourself on the back, you deserve it.
[0:20:18.6] CA: I tell them that, all the time.
[0:20:19.6] JR: All the time. Guys, you have no idea how good you have it. But you’re also exceptional at your craft. What does that look like for you. What does a typical work day look like for you from sun up to sun down. Yeah, what’s a day in the life of Christy Adams? I’m super interested in routines, habits, yeah.
[0:20:37.0] CA: You can learn nothing from my routine because I’m constantly exhausted. I wake up at like four, 4:30. Start scrolling through my mental list of things to do. I get on Pinterest and look at ideas for – I’m super interested in this new language philosophy called ‘comprehensible input’ where, not that you care but I’m going to tell you anyway. Instead of just immersing the students in the language and speaking 100% in the language. It is modeling the language in a different way where you include lots of pictures and acting it out and that kind of thing so they don’t feel overwhelmed but they feel like they understand what it going on but they are also being challenged. So I look up ideas for that and then it is just –
Chris and I are trying to get these lethargic sloths out of our home and onto the bus and I work part-time this year so I get off at noon and then I pick up the kids or get them from the bus stop rather and something that I have changed since our last conversation –
[0:21:35.0] JR: Since take one?
[0:21:36.2] CA: Yes since take one, we were talking about quiet times and I said I was trying to do it in the morning and it was a disaster and I was trying to read in the middle of the night like after 4:30 and in between six AM and it was not going well and also I was talking about how I wanted my children to see me studying God’s word.
[0:21:55.7] JR: Yeah, we talked about this.
[0:21:56.2] CA: And so –
[0:21:56.8] JR: Nobody will get to benefit from that conversation though once we rehash that, yeah.
[0:22:00.2] CA: Well, I have since changed that and when they are starting their homework time I sit down with them and I have started to do that during their homework time. So that they see that I am making it a priority and so thank you for that.
[0:22:14.7] JR: Is that working?
[0:22:15.2] CA: Yeah it is working great, yeah.
[0:22:17.0] JR: They are not interrupting you like a million times to ask for help.
[0:22:19.7] CA: I mean sometimes yeah but that is okay.
[0:22:21.3] JR: Yes so –
[0:22:22.0] CA: Otherwise it will never get done if they don’t.
[0:22:23.8] JR: Yes so the backstory – I think you said the backstory pretty well, right? But we were talking during take one of this episode about I have a hard time figuring out when to do my quiet time because I do want the kids to see it, see me reading God’s word every day but by the very nature of their age, Allison is five, Kate is three – when they’re up, they’re – Kate is incessant. I mean you know Kate, she literally doesn’t stop talking.
So yeah they are just being – yeah I wonder where she gets it from. No, she just makes it incredibly difficult so I am trying to figure out – like the ideal scenario would be I am at the kitchen table at 5 AM and reading for 30 minutes and they get up at 5:30 or six or whatever and they catch me at the tail end but homework time, I like that. I like that a lot. All right, so let us talk about this, teaching. You’ve made it very clear. We have talked about this when we were talking about the book.
You don’t want to be a principal, you don’t want to be an administrator. No offense to principals. We’re offending everybody today. No offense to principals but I mean listen, like you’re in a role without any upward mobility, right? You are a teacher and there’s really nowhere to go from that. There is not this – my point is that they are not that extreme motivation of significantly more pay or a better title.
[0:23:46.2] CA: That is not true.
[0:23:47.0] JR: Really?
[0:23:47.3] CA: I just got a two dollar raise, thank you very much.
[0:23:51.7] JR: Thank you very much, okay. All right, great so other than that two dollar raise –
[0:23:56.8] CA: Per day.
[0:23:57.6] JR: – per day, what’s motivating you? What is motivating you and driving you to get better at what you do?
[0:24:03.5] CA: Well, I have always been intrinsically motivated. Chris, my husband always asks me, “Why don’t you just recycle your old lessons? Why can’t you just use what you used last year?” I’m like, “Because I have learned so much since last year.” It is a different –
[0:24:18.6] JR: Getting better is possible.
[0:24:19.7] CA: Yes, different kids, different ways of reaching them, you know, we have different inside jokes and so you know, that. I mean, constantly looking at the new research and that kind of thing but when I close my door and I lock my students in there with me because it is 2019 and I have to do that, I know that I am bringing glory to God because I am putting forth my best effort and I am treating them with loving kindness and I believe I do that through planning and effective lesson.
And showing them that I care by incorporating all of the things, the research, the things I know about them, the things that I get from their feedback and so that really does motivate me for sure to keep pushing.
[0:25:07.4] JR: That is the only answer, right? So do you think this idea – I don’t know if you want to call ambition. I don’t know that it is ambition. Is this something that can be learned? I guess it is what this podcast is all about. It is about inspiring people to lean harder into the work that they are doing not making work an idol but leaning more heavily into the work that we are doing because we believe it is a primary means by which we reveal God’s character in the world and love neighbor as self.
Is that something that people are born with or do you think people can really develop that and understand that at a deeper level?
[0:25:43.0] CA: I think that you can develop that. I think as we shift our perspective and as we grow closer in our walk with the Lord I think that you can see that our work is a wonderful way that we can reflect God’s glory and be grateful for the talents that he has given us and I think that we should be developing it each day, you know, whether we are staying at home or we are in the workplace or whatever it is. Yeah I definitely think that it can be developed and should be developed.
[0:26:11.1] JR: I hope so otherwise what the heck are we doing on this podcast, just talking to people who already get it and I do believe that. I do wonder about that sometimes. Is this just the ambition gene or is there something – and I don’t think it is. I think the Lord can grow and develop us in our understanding of how what we do, be it motherhood, fatherhood, teaching, recording a podcast, is extending human flourishing in the world and revealing his character.
So I think one of my favorite chapters of Master of One is chapter – I don’t remember the number, we’ll call it 10, but it is this idea that it is one of the promises of mastery, right? So for the Christian what are the things that should be motivating us to get masterfully good at what we do other than the fact that we bring glory to God and love our neighbors as self when we do it and I think one of them that your story exemplifies –
I also tell the story of the Enron whistleblower who I think it is a really good example, the Sherron Watkins but I think when we get masterfully good at our craft, we are often granted power. That might not be the best word. We might be uncomfortable with that term but power that can be expended in service of others, right? Not power to hoard for ourselves but we have power. We have influence, we have knowledge that can be put to use for some of the world’s most vulnerable people.
And you shared a story as I was researching the book that I loved that I have incorporated in chapter 10 that I am hoping you will re-share yourself. So I will set it up and then tee it up for you. So you just had your eldest child, right? You weren’t teaching. You had taken a year off from teaching, is that right?
[0:27:50.4] CA: Yes.
[0:27:50.8] JR: Okay, you were living at Gainesville, Georgia. Poor part of Georgia. Lots of immigrants, lots of migrant workers, but you knew you were good at teaching. You had this “power”. You wanted to do something productive. Talk about what you did during that season of your career.
[0:28:07.2] CA: Yeah, I went into an apartment complex near our church and there were a lot of Spanish speakers in that area and so I asked the apartment manager if he or she thought there would be tenants living there who would be interested in English classes and so I was planning on going door to door or whatever and he said, “No, hold on. I know what to do. You just need to go to this one person’s door, knock on the door, she will take you around.”
And so I met my friend, I think you called her Catalina in the book. I met my friend Catalina and boy, was the manager right. I went around with Catalina and we rounded up so many people and I had the blessing of teaching English classes on Saturday mornings for a few hours to these people and they were just amazing. A lot of them worked the night shift and would come straight from their shift to come in and learn English and we taught English.
I had a friend that helped with me. We taught English using the book of Mathew. So we would share the gospel but also you know, teach them the language and we would also focus on words that they were needing in their business and so I just got to see these precious people flourish and grow in their confidence and a lot of them have been able to get better paying jobs and my friend Catalina was able to start volunteering in her kid’s school.
Now her kids are honor students and starting to graduate and that is just something that I never would have imagined before we did this because she didn’t know how to be a voice for them. She didn’t know how to help them with homework and that kind of thing and that really does limit, you know? And so just being able to give them a voice in the United States and a more equitable way of living I guess.
[0:30:03.9] JR: Yeah it’s beautiful and the part I love about this is you couldn’t have done that or at least you couldn’t have done that effectively, people would have kept coming back to your Saturday morning sessions to hear Mathew in Spanish if you weren’t great at what you did, right? If you were a mediocre teacher and people weren’t learning what they needed to go further at work and get a job, they wouldn’t have kept coming back.
And so there is this sense and call it what you will, I prefer to call it power that as we get great at what we do the Lord grants us power not for us to horde, not for ourselves but to expend sacrificially I mean that is what Jesus did, right? Jesus said the ultimate power that he completely poured out on the cross for us and for what ultimately for the Father’s glory and not primarily for us, I love that and even now right? You are teaching in public school, you could be doing more lucrative things. I mean that two dollar raise was –
[0:30:59.7] CA: I’m blowing my nose on $100 bills.
[0:31:02.6] JR: Significant but yeah, you are on the public school system, right? So obviously you are not permitted to preach the gospel explicitly but you very much view this work as ministry. We have talked a little bit as to why but tie a bow around it. Why is the work of the people listening to the show, who aren’t preaching the gospel explicitly everyday, they are going to work as a marketing manager at a big company, they’re going to work as a teacher, they are going to work as an engineer, why is that ministry? Can you really justify, can you really call that ministry much like what we would call our pastor’s work ministry?
[0:31:38.7] CA: Yes for sure. I mean it is going to look different in every workplace but in my workplace, the loving kindness that I show them and the patience that I show my students is going to be a reflection of God, you know. They see a difference in the way that I treat them hopefully. They tell me they do. Most of them do.
[0:32:00.4] JR: Have you ever had a student say that? I know people say, “Oh if you just be the hands and feet of Jesus people will notice.” I don’t think most people buy it. Have you actually seen that play out?
[0:32:10.7] CA: Yeah they have asked me, “Why do you never seem to get mad?” I have some kids say, “Why do you never raise your voice,” or whatever and I am like, “Oh I don’t?”
[0:32:22.5] JR: Well let me show you kid, yeah.
[0:32:24.4] CA: And then I tell them, “Well, it’s because I am a Christian and I feel like people need to be treated with kindness and patience,” and that kind of thing and that is all I am allowed to say but they know at the beginning of the year when I tell them who I am, what I believe. They know then after that something should be different about me.
[0:32:45.6] JR: Okay Christy. So three questions I like to ask every guest and this first one, man I hope you have a better answer. I am just kidding, Harry Potter is a fine answer to this question.
[0:32:58.5] CA: It’s not though. It is not even the name of a book.
[0:33:00.9] JR: No it’s not technically, not at all. Which books do you recommend the most or give to other people the most?
[0:33:07.1] CA: Okay, well one of my favorite fiction books is 11/22/63. I think that Stephen King is a fantastic author though I do not like horror at all.
[0:33:15.7] JR: Did you see the –
[0:33:17.3] CA: Yes I did.
[0:33:18.0] JR: Did you like it?
[0:33:18.8] CA: No, I did not.
[0:33:19.8] JR: You, did not. All right, so 11/22/63 it was a show on Hulu something like that with James Franco. We watched two episodes. We did not like it but the book is great.
[0:33:30.3] CA: Yes.
[0:33:30.8] JR: Okay, all right I got to read the book.
[0:33:32.7] CA: Okay, Little Blue Truck is a classic. It talks about the need for community supporting each other but I am really on a Jen Wilkin kick she –
[0:33:44.2] JR: I was talking to your husband about this at Bible study this morning, yeah.
[0:33:46.8] CA: Oh my goodness, we went through Genesis with her and I feel like she’s my best friend. We are going through Exodus now in my ladies Bible study and what a gift she has. She is amazing but I feel like as many times as I have read these books of the Bible, going through these studies is just, I’m like, “Have I even read this, what in the world?” and we are weeping over genealogies that I have just skimmed over and she’s pointing out a significance and how God cares about all of these names here and I am just learning so much through that. So I am hoping to just keep going through the Bible with Jen Wilkin so.
[0:34:27.2] JR: Yeah, Jen is an exceptional teacher of the Word. So I was literally at Bible study this morning with your husband Chris and he was telling me about Jen’s teaching on the plagues. Can you give a quick two minute summary of what was mind blowing to you about this?
[0:34:46.0] CA: Yeah, I just never knew that – I never thought about the way that God started the plagues with little nuisances, you know, frogs and flies and gnats and that kind of thing and then just slowly started stripping them down of things and it’s like sin starts out small and then it just grows and grows and she was also explaining how each one of the plagues was significant because it basically tore down one of the Egyptian gods and I have always thought it was weird that one of the last plagues, the 9th plague was darkness but their main god, Rah was the sun god and so to be able to step by step break down –
[0:35:32.2] JR: Tear down the little fake gods. That is fascinating. I have never heard somebody teach stuff like that. I love it. Those are three great books, much better – that was a great answer. Those are great answers.
[0:35:41.2] CA: But I do love Goblet of Fire.
[0:35:42.3] JR: Hey, everybody loves Goblet of Fire. All right, what one person would you most love to hear talk about how they think about their faith influencing their work?
[0:35:52.0] CA: Okay.
[0:35:52.4] JR: Yeah, you can dream big. We dream big here on The Call to Mastery.
[0:35:56.8] CA: I know you are going to laugh at this but I have been extremely fascinated with Kanye.
[0:36:04.0] JR: Yeah, oh I am all about it.
[0:36:06.1] CA: And I think that you need to bring him in.
[0:36:08.7] JR: Yes, so we have people in the field actively seeking out Kanye. We are trying to get Kanye on the podcast. I am all about it. By the way, when we were talking about this in Bible study this morning too. If you are one of this Christians out there that are like questioning Kanye’s salvation, critiquing him, please stop. The man is raising his hand and saying, “I want to follow Jesus Chris.” Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.
Let us celebrate with him and come alongside him and view this as the Lord working. It is just crazy when people poo-poo celebrities coming to Christ. I’m like really? Yeah, I’d love to have Kanye on the show and talk about that transition and like C.S. Lewis, yes I just compared Kanye to C.S. Lewis, not abandoning the work that he is doing. He is not changing his work but my prayer is that he is radically changing his relationship to his work and I really want to have that conversation with Kanye.
All right, last question, what one piece of advice would you give to somebody who like you is pursuing mastery of the art of teaching or really any vocation?
[0:37:13.7] CA: Well, the main thing is just to ask for feedback and do something with that feedback and don’t let your pride get in the way because you should surround yourself with positive people who are honest and willing to give you that feedback.
[0:37:34.1] JR: No but the feedback – one thing that I like about how you deliberately said get feedback is it is not just from people who are going to agree with you. You are seeking out feedback from middle schoolers who are the most critical people on the face of the earth and they are so smart but I think there is a lot of wisdom in that, right? In seeking out feedback from people you know who aren’t going to always agree with you. I mean it is a trap, a lot of people fall into.
Hey Christy, I just want to commend you for the work that you do. Thank you for – I mean listen, my kids are in your school district. So this is very personal to me. I am grateful that you do your work exceptionally well. Thank you for the gift in the ministry of excellence. Thank you for believing that your work matters just as much as the work of our pastor or anyone else in my least favorite term “full time ministry” and thank you for continuing to get better at what you are doing, caring about that and believing that better is always possible and thanks for hanging out with me for take two of this episode. Maybe we will release take one as a blooper later on but thanks for being on here.
[0:38:33.0] CA: I didn’t get to say the thing that I learned about, Jordan Raynor.
[0:38:35.7] JR: Oh okay, hang on a second let’s go there. So a little bonus at the end of this episode. In take one we talked about we went on a trip over spring break to Georgia that you and your husband invited yourselves onto, which we appreciated. We love to hang out with the Adams. So I asked you what one thing did you learned about Jordan Raynor that you didn’t know prior to that trip.
[0:38:53.3] CA: I have two actually.
[0:38:54.2] JR: Oh my gosh. Okay.
[0:38:55.4] CA: The first one is I did not know that you could completely clear a Chick-il-A table trying to get to your daughter who have been pushed down by a little boy in the playground.
[0:39:05.6] JR: Yeah, I jumped over the table like it was a hurdle. Yeah I will protect Kate at all costs.
[0:39:10.4] CA: And I didn’t know that you are willing to eat my leftovers at 4 AM.
[0:39:15.2] JR: Every morning.
[0:39:16.2] CA: Every morning you had some leftover Italian chicken on our trip and I appreciated the commitment to not being wasteful.
[0:39:23.3] JR: Yeah, waste not want not and I learned and I am very interested to hear if anyone in the audience has ever heard this term because I don’t think they have. Christy asked me on the first night if she could dip my plate before dinner and I literally didn’t even know how to respond to that. It is not a thing.
[0:39:40.0] CA: Don’t use that term.
[0:39:40.7] JR: That is not a term.
[0:39:41.6] CA: Do you use the word y’allses?
[0:39:43.0] JR: We do not use the word y’allses. So dipping a plate for those in the south, email me at jordan@jordanraynor.com if you have heard this before but it is make a plate, make a dish, can I get your –
[0:39:53.0] CA: Dip a plate, yes. Can I dip your plate?
[0:39:55.1] JR: Dip a plate and with that take two of this episode with Christy Adams comes to a close. Thanks for hanging out Christy.
[0:40:01.5] CA: Thank you Jordan.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:40:02.4] JR: I hope you guys love Christy as much as I do. What a great conversation. Hey, if you want to get the book and enter the sweepstakes, you know where to do it at jordanraynor.com. Thank you guys for listening to The Call to Mastery, I’ll see you next week.
[END]