Building a Kingdom culture
Jordan Raynor sits down with Chris Carneal, Founder of Booster Enterprises, to talk about what he learned in going from 1,000 full-time employees down to 140 due to the pandemic and how they’ve rebuilt to nearly 400, how Booster makes the Kingdom winsome to their public school customers, and why Chris doesn’t go into the office until late morning.
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[00:00:05] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I host a conversation with a Christian who is pursuing world-class mastery of their craft. We talk about their path to mastery. We talk about their daily habits and routines, and how their faith influences their work.
Guys, today's episode is easily one of my favorites we've ever done. We are talking to my new friend, Chris Carneal. He's the founder and CEO of Booster Enterprises, better known by their brand Boosterthon, these fitness fundraisers that they put on at elementary schools all throughout the United States. Since founding the company 18 years ago, Chris has turned Booster into a behemoth. They've helped schools raise more than $350 million, and they've served more than 7 million students. Chris has been recognized as 40 Under 40 Entrepreneur by the Atlanta Business Chronicle. He's an exceptional founder. And recently we sat down, we talked about what he's learned and going from a thousand full time employees down to 140, due to the pandemic, only to rebuild very quickly to almost 400 employees.
Today, we talked about how Booster makes the kingdom winsome to their employees, to their customers at public schools, private schools, wherever. And we talked about why Chris doesn't go into the office until late morning. And the genius of this and the impact that it has on his team's ability to get deep work done. I love this episode, please enjoy this conversation with my friend, Chris Carneal.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:01:59] JR: Chris, thanks so much for joining me.
[00:02:00] CC: Hey, Jordan, thanks for having me. I'm honored to be part.
[00:02:05] JR: So, this whole thing came about because I was getting a bunch of emails from people who kept saying, “Oh, yeah, Chris Carneal like recommended Called to Create to me”, and I heard the name and I was like, “That sounds really familiar.” I looked you up on LinkedIn. I'm like, “Oh, yeah, Booster, of course.”
So, first question, softball question. Hopefully. I'm curious if you remember who first recommended Called to Create to you?
[00:02:28] CC: I am such an avid purchaser of great books on Amazon under the categories of vocation, theology and culture. I think it might have popped up. I'm not exactly sure when you when you released it. But as soon as I saw it, I mean, I have about as many books on those topics, as anybody I know. And yours is absolutely one of my favorites. It is the book. I've told many, “This is the book I wish I wrote.” You just say it better. You have so many incredible stories, the theology in it, the practicality in it, it's like, this is it. This is the message I've been preaching. And I hope I live for the past 20 years to our organization and I just I love it.
So, I've read it twice, cover to cover. I've given it away. I might even read it again. That's how much it impacted me. So, thank you for your work.
[00:03:16] JR: You're very kind. Thank you for your work. So, I've known Booster for years. And for listeners who don't know, let's set the table. What does Booster do?
[00:03:24] CC: Yeah, well, back in college, I had the idea because I saw the need for elementary school fundraising to be done in a different way. The traditional way of the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s and ‘90s was product sales. If any listeners remember –
[00:03:42] JR: This is me. I loved it. I loved it. I was the kid who went all the fundraisers at school selling gift wrap paper.
[00:03:49] CC: Yeah, there it is. You're the poster child of the ‘80s and the ‘90s –
[00:03:52] JR: That’s right, of the ‘90s model school fundraising. Yes.
[00:03:55] CC: Sell magazines, sell gift wraps, sell cookie dough, sell you name it, product sell fundraisers was the traditional way to fundraise. When I was a kid, my dad helped organize in my school through the PE department, a fitness fun run. So, I participated in a fun run as a kid, he was the Booster Club president of our school. So, he kind of changed it around a little bit. Then fast forward 15 years, I go to college, play college baseball. I'm doing a baseball lesson for a kid one day and just teaching an elementary school kid and he says, “Coach before we start, can you buy some magazines?” Now, I'm a college student. I'm broke. I'm not really into buying magazines or anything else I can't afford.
[00:04:33] JR: He doesn't know his target demo very well.
[00:04:36] CC: No, he doesn’t. And I thought, “This is cool. I remember doing that. That was kind of fun. Are they still doing this? Is this what schools are still doing to raise funds?” And the answer is yes. Of the 100,000 elementary schools in America, they all do fundraising one way or another. And at the time, the vast majority at some point in the year through some organization. They might be a private school, public school, large, small, urban rule, rich or poor. There's always a funding gap and there's direct gives, there's annual funds, there's capital campaigns, there's product sales. The PE department does. The Booster Club does. The PTA does. The principal does. The admin.
So, I just thought, “Man, I remember when I was a kid doing a fun run.” So, I call my dad, then I call my mom, the longtime educator, 35-year college professor, got her educational thoughts. Growing up in an educational household that just made sense. I knew how to talk to principals and teachers. And so, I started going around asking people, “what do you do for fundraiser?” And the vast majority said, “Oh, we sell products through our PTA in the fall. We do a cookie dough sale in wintertime. And in the spring, we do you know, whatever.” So, I thought, there's got to be a better way, fun runs make sense. A lot of schools even did fun runs, it wasn't a new concept. I did not invent fun or running. But what we did invent was the idea that an outside organization will organize, promote, distribute, count, collect, host, manage for you. And that was like music to a school's ears. “You mean we can focus on education, not on counting quarters? You'll record the pledges and you'll get kids excited and make it fun instead of our third-grade teacher?”
So, that's a little bit of the founding story. Of course, like any good founding story, I was over 50. I went around school, friend’s school, my mom's a teacher, my cousin’s nephew’s uncle is a principal, and they all graciously through my social capital gave me a meeting, which was incredibly gracious. And their question was, “Love it. Good idea. Have you done this before?” “No. But I know it could work.” “Okay, well listen do one.”
[00:06:39] JR: When you have the first one –
[00:06:40] CC: I don't want your guinea pig. I'd love to try it. But I can't be your first this is our kids and our parents’ money. The two things they care about most, their kids and their money. So, I had one school, Shades Mountain Christian school, our first one in Birmingham, Alabama, right outside of Oak Mountain. Shades Mountain Christian said, “Hey, let's try it.” I had to guarantee them what at the time was a huge sum of money for me, $3,500. That was my guarantee, because the coach said, “Look, I got three other fundraisers that are each going to raise $1,000, $1,200. You got to guarantee me $3,500.” What I was doing at the time that was guaranteeing my honeymoon money. I didn't tell my now wife of 18 and a half years. But I said, there's the moment that the entrepreneurs got to say, “Let's go for it. Put your money where your mouth is.”
So, I did it. The school was delighted. But I was shocked that the school profited $ 21,000, not the 3,500 they wanted. So, then they called back again the next year, another school heard about it, and then all of a sudden started to take on a life of its own.
[00:07:40] JR: So, years ago, I ran a venture that sold to government, right, that sold to municipalities and man, selling to public entities, whether it's the City of Philadelphia or an individual public school, that's tough, notoriously tough. How did you land those first customers? Was the strategy, “okay, go to the private schools where the decision-making power is easier and then as we gain traction going to public schools?” What was the strategy?
[00:08:09] CC: You’re giving me too much credit. I don't think I knew what the word strategy was for a few years. I was a religion major at Stanford University. I wanted to change the world. I ended up getting married after college and moving to Louisville, Kentucky to go to seminary for three years. I eventual future plan was to move back home to South Florida and start a church. So, I've never had a business class. I don't want to jinx it. So, I don't intend to. I've read a million business books though. And I devour wisdom, mentors, conferences, podcasts like yours, to learn all I can. But I did have a few contacts, and friends and relationships at private schools. So, that was the first place I started. But very quickly that led to public schools.
We still to this day, and in 2019, we served about 4,000 schools, just that school year, nationwide, serve schools in all 50 states. We've run the program 24,000 times. Still to this day, we've never sold more than one school at a time. We either have a contact.
[00:09:08] JR: So, you don't do districts?
[00:09:09] CC: No, we love to. But as part of the autonomy of the American education system, the district's even will push you down to the local level and say, “You decide what's best for your school.” We met with some charter school associations, and you can start a conversation there and they'll say, “Hey, sounds great. Let me send an email.” But the decision making is exclusively made on the local school level, which I think is great. They know what's best for their students, their community. Now, it is very time consuming on our behalf.
[00:09:40] JR: Oh, yeah, I was going to say from a business model perspective, that's frustrating, but I get it.
[00:09:44] CC: But it's also a good barrier to entry for competition as well. So, good luck. Crisscross the country like I have for the last 20 years.
[00:09:51] JR: Exactly. And speaking of barriers to entry, you guys created quite a significant one. Give us some idea of the scale of Booster pre COVID because obviously, everyone's listening right now, they’re like, “Oh, my gosh, these guys are doing events at school.” What in the world does the business look like today? But what did it look like pre COVID?
[00:10:06] CC: The word “event” means a little bit different meaning today than it did six months, nine months ago. We raised schools $350 million over the course of the organization, the past 18 years, 17 years, serve schools in all 50 states, about 4,000 clients, a team of about a thousand, full time team members all over the country, home office right here in Metro Atlanta, Georgia, about 150 support system and team distribution, tech team, marketing team and all the major business functions that once upon a time didn't exist, or I did them all to a very mediocre degree. And then said this person is better at sales, operations, logistics finance, up and down the line tech and hired someone better than me and then let them run with it.
So, it sounds easy, kids run in a circle and they get pledges as opposed to selling a product. But there are so many nuances to make it really, really excellent, which is what Called to Create, an excellence of it, product service that ultimately glorifies God, serves the purpose, creates a great reputation and brand, serves the community. And so, to do it well with again, the two things people care about most, their kids and their money, we make sure we're excellent and in every way. So, it's it's very challenging to scale. We have 130 box trucks, for example, and every box truck has in it, eight speakers, full sound system, tunnel tents, wind feathers, tables, cones. You're missing one plug for one speaker, all of a sudden, the the program looks pretty mediocre. So, it's got to be excellent.
[00:11:40] JR: I love it. I love the commitment to exceptional work. So, March comes around. I think we're going to release this episode in early 2021, it’s looking like. So, March 2020, rolls around, COVID hits, what happens to the business and bring us up to that.
[00:11:54] CC: Oh, man, you just gave me a little PTSD just even asking the question. This has been without a doubt the most challenging season of my life. There's been a few challenging personal moments in my life. But I've had a really great blessed life in so many ways. But as a founder, as an entrepreneur, what happens professionally, happens personally, inside my heart, my mind, my soul. I'm the founder. So, I have referred to Booster and people kind of look at me like I'm joking, but I'm not, as this is my firstborn child. My wife and I have been married almost 19 years, we have four amazing kids, 16, 13, 10 and 7, Booster is 19. Booster represents the people that used to work with us, currently work with us, will work with us. It's a living, breathing, organization. Its people centric. I’m as relational extroverted, cultural centric as they come. That's my calling.
Again, I thought I would be a pastor because I love people, wanted to make a difference. I wanted to change the world. By God's grace, he led me to see that through commerce and business, I actually could exercise more of my gifts and at least for the gifts he's given me make a greater difference missionally in the world. So, I love it every day.
But seeing something you created instantly, March the 13th, Friday, come to a dead stop. And then for the next 173 days of zero revenue. And then the next 70 days of minimal, but not really survivable revenue, not quite sustainable, then to today, December 1, okay, we think we have a plan forward, we have survived this season. I've said the phrase many times to entrepreneurs and those listening, you'll know you're an entrepreneur, if you nod along. It could all be gone tomorrow.
And I've said that and we know it, but I've never – we plan, we manage. We do risk assessments and what could happen? Well, one state. Well, we're diversified in 50 states. One service level, we have four service levels. We have redundancies on redundancies of backup servers. We had extra sounds – we can adapt, we can overcome. Never in a million years, could I have imagined a worldwide pandemic that would shut down every elementary school in the United States of America pretty much overnight.
So, yeah, thinkable. Well. Okay, we couldn't plan for, what do we do? In February, actually, the first country to close it schools entirely, was Japan. So, I sent an email to my CFO, I just pulled it up a couple weeks ago to review it. And I said, “What if this were to happen in America in the month of April?” He said, “It'd be bad. We lose $7 million in revenue. We’ll probably make some cost adjustments and but we still have a profitable year and, you know, man, that would stink.” Well, that was the first of five different times that my worst-case scenario became my best-case scenario. So, I thought, That's crazy. That'll never happen. We all said it. My enneagram six CFO, whose job is to think about what ifs said, that will never happen.
Well, as we know, that didn't just happen for a month. It happened the entire spring. What if we lost every client for the entire spring? That was 20 million in revenue. Then we thought, “Okay, wow, we survived the spring. Now, let's gear up for a big pent up demand robust fall.” And then on July the 21st realized, the day after our big rally, the troops get ready Booster United. Here's how great next year is going to be. Let's focus on the customer. And then the very next morning, we saw school districts across the country start to delay, go digital, shut down, say, “We're not going to open on time.” All of a sudden, our fall plans we said, “Okay, we have waited as long as we can. We furloughed some but we waited months even to doing that.” We said, “Unfortunately, this is terrible. We thought it was the worst, but we're going to have to resize the organization or we're not going to be in business.”
So, I had to have what Jim Collins calls the fierce resolve to do what's really challenging for anybody, especially for a founder who is again, people centric is me. And we had to basically go from 1,000 to 140 employees. So, an 86% reduction of team members. Good news, today, we're back up to 400. We had to have 5 million in revenue to survive the fall, 5 to survive, 10 to win. That was the goal. We'll have north of 10, close to 15. I just literally a few minutes ago was reviewing our customer service feedback scores from our clients. They're actually at an all-time high, which is remarkable. Our team has risen to the occasion like never before. And in many ways, it was our finest hour.
We know it's not done. We know the pandemic is not over. And there's still a lot of uncertainty. But to survive the unknown when we had no idea what was coming and there was no talk of vaccine and schools didn't know what virtual meant. Now, schools pretty much have a good idea of, “Okay, if we are virtual, or hybrid or something, we know what that looks like. We know what the program's look like.”
So, by God's grace, and my amazing team's grit, determination, and loyalty, we've kept all of our senior leaders, all of our GMs in our major markets across the country, the vast majority of our clients, and we're looking forward to 2021. We don't know what it looks like, but we're trusting the Lord for the opportunity to keep working with our great clients.
[00:17:09] JR: What an amazing story. You mentioned a few minutes ago, you spend a lot of time focused on culture, focus on the team, focused on people. And there's a bunch of different types of CEOs when you get to this stage. You can have the really sales focused CEO, you can have the culture focused CEO, the finance focused CEO, you choosing culture, it sounds like as the lane you want to run in. And sometimes it can feel like spending money, spending resources, spending time on culture building give you a waste of time, until a pandemic hits, and your team has to rally to really fight for their life. Talk about some of the things you did pre COVID that you saw pay off in the engagement of the team to get you to win.
[00:17:53] CC: That's exactly right. I mean, gosh, like you do so well, you summarize that. I invest in culture, because it's the right thing to do. I want my kids to work here, I want my friends to work here, I want to work here, I want to create a space in a place that celebrates the best of me, and challenges me where I can come alive, where I could learn and grow, where I have tremendously talented team members that are smarter than me, that push me, and at the same time, a place I can succeed and feel valued and use my strengths and gifts that God's given me. So, I want to create that for me. I want to be here forever. I'm not a flip and sell. I mean, I can picture myself owning and running Booster forever, until I die and then my kids will own it, and kind of go from there, because I love it. Again, it doesn't represent the business side of it as much as business is the tool to change the world. It's the environment that I get to create, to build amazing relationships internally and externally.
I've always poured into culture. Culture to me just kind of comes naturally. Now, everybody's personality has their own take on what culture is, how they get the most of it, the best of it.
[00:18:56] JR: Yes. So, what does that look like really practically for you?
[00:18:59] CC: Well, I'll give you a great example. We had values for 16 years. I love them. These words, you've heard them on – you've heard them too much, actually, which is why we changed them, integrity, enthusiasm, leadership, results, and community. Five values for 16 years. And they're painted on the wall as soon as you walk in. We live them out and you give me 30 minutes, you'll say, “Those are the greatest values ever. They match your culture. They're awesome.”
Well, I started seeing new hires, eyes just kind of glaze over. Integrity, doesn't everybody say that? Yeah, in fact, a lot of organizations say that don't even live it. So, I started saying, “I think it might be time to refresh our values.” I just say it in a different way. What I felt like was that our values were not distinctive, or descriptive enough for us. So, as I went to this long project of, I were to start the company today, but it still feels the same, what would the words be? And then I jumped up a step and said, “Wait a minute, is values even what we're doing?” So, what I stumbled upon was an old ancient word that to me has a lot more depth and the word is virtue.
A year and a half ago, we transitioned our five values and created our six virtues. Virtues to me are both more aspirational and actionable than value. They are words that are timeless, they're eternal, they challenge us, they push us and at the same time, I can every single day, take a step, practically with excellence to meet one of those virtues. So, here they are, and in order, they're in order on purpose, because we call it the virtuous cycle.
Number one, the greatest of all values, gratitude. What am I grateful for, and what is the Lord given me? Out of that hard posture, gratitude, everything's possible. Virtue two is wisdom. Virtue three is care. Virtue four is courage. Virtue five, grit. And virtue six, celebration. Gratitude, wisdom, care, courage, grit, and celebration. And then when you celebrate people well, you champion them, you encourage them, you affirm them, you're left with a feeling of gratitude. Wow, I get to be part of this. And then the cycle continues.
So, by God's providence, July 2019, we really integrated those into the organization through our annual event, Booster United, talked about them. I mean, I spent so much time thinking through what they meant, and how to display them and how to have an experience around them. But it really became part of the organization. And I'll tell you, Thanksgiving was just last week. None of us have ever felt more gratitude that we do this year, even though we've lost a lot. I feel like I've grown so much in wisdom, because I've had to rely on the Lord, not my own strength.
Our team that's still here, feels cared for our clients, I know feel cared for, because we've worked so hard for them. We had to make a lot of really courageous, tough, challenging decisions this year we've never made before. This year took the most grit, perseverance, and persistence that we've ever had. And we're celebrating some small things that we used to maybe overlook, and we really are looking forward to the day, hopefully 2021 that we could celebrate that the pandemic is over, and that we get to move forward, and that that's behind us.
So, those virtues have set the DNA, the lifeblood of who we are, the six adjectives that describe best who we are and who we want to be, and challenge us every single day. So, I feel like in God's providence, the fact that we redid those, refresh them, gave ourselves six months before the world fell apart. It really was the bedrock that we made all of our operating decisions on.
[00:22:28] JR: You mentioned rolling those out, at this, sounds like all hands event called Booster United. I'm assuming this is when you fly in those 900 staff that are in HQ to Atlanta for an event, is that right?
[00:22:40] CC: That's exactly right. We rented out the Braves Stadium. I had my childhood baseball hero John Smoltz.
[00:22:46] JR: That’s amazing.
[00:22:47] CC: We were at the stadium as a big surprise and change the world flashing on the jumbotron. And John Smoltz walks out, he talks about grit and perseverance and persistence and gratitude I wrote all at the time. I think there are 700 people that came to the event. I wrote all 700 people an individual gratitude notes thanking them for who they are and what they contribute to the organization. So, we just tried to demonstrate these are the six words that we're going to base the next 10 to 20 years on, because culture matters so much.
[00:23:14] JR: Yeah. So, this thank you notes are a really good example of investing in culture. But so is that event. I mean, you guys have 900 staff in the field. That's expensive. To get everybody to Atlanta. I bet a lot of people told you that's crazy as more business leaders are thinking about, how do we engage remote teams? Do you think this is going to be a trend? You're going to see more people investing in bringing everybody together one, two times a year?
[00:23:41] CC: Oh, I think so. This year because of when it fell, we had to do it virtually. It was at the end of July. But then later in October, we had a GM meeting. I have not looked the GMs in the eye since the pandemic began. And it was like eight months. So, I mean, it was very low key and not nearly as expensive as the past. And we were literally cooking burgers on the grill at my house and sitting around my fire pit in my backyard while I cried and thanked them and prayed together and said, “I just want to look you in the eye and say thank you for sticking with me.” And there is something about in person. I definitely think there's a little bit of a Zoom world that will continue, that will add so much more efficiency to our lives. But the depth and richness of relationships, I think we're also saying, “Man, I got to see someone in person to give him a hug and to look him in the eye.” So, I think I think there's a balance between the two.
[00:24:30] JR: I agree. So, culture really is just a reflection of people. So, you got to get really good at hiring. It's a topic I'm really passionate about as a founder. And from my perspective, and again, I don't know Booster super well, but just through perusing the website, perusing the careers page, you guys sell prospective hires more than most companies do. You are a program leader, that’s a good example of this. The page is all about leveling up your leadership. If it's pitching the job as this professional growth experience, and that's a different mindset for most employers. I think a lot of employers take this posture consciously or subconsciously of like, we have something valuable to offer you. Booster, it seems like takes the opposite approach, like talent, A+ talent has something valuable to offer us. Am I reading that right? And can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:25:23] CC: You're 100% correct. I mean, do we have something to offer the team members? Of course. Beyond the paycheck? Yes. Leader development, I would say the greatest culture in the world come here. We take a 22-year-old, the graduates, and when they go home for Christmas break, five months later, they look around, their friends are like, “Have you been working that company for five years, because you've matured as a leader. You know yourself. You know others. You're leading yourself. You're leading others. You have so much new language. You're speaking and your discipline, your virtues.” So, there's no doubt, that's our goal. I want to have more value than I take.
But at the same time, our product is our people, regardless of the service level. I mean, anyone can get, no, not quite, but to get kids to run in a circle. It doesn't sound that complicated. But to put on a seamless campaign event for a school where they have 20, 30, $40,000, that they wouldn't have had to do it in a week and a half, but to encourage the teachers, the staff, the faculty, the parents to build the community, it takes a remarkable values, virtues-centered leader, that’s selfless, that cares for others, that can host an experience, whether it's live or digital, that's incredibly adaptive and intuitive. Every single school that we work with, it might look the same on the outside, but the more we know their school culture and the uniqueness of the school and the principal's leadership and their philosophies and their values, the more we can craft the program to where we want to feel like family at the school because we want to keep a client for 10, 20 years.
So, we want team members to know and see their value and to feel it and they work incredibly hard. They get summers off to a large degree and a good Christmas break. But we're up early and up late serving clients. So, we want them to feel our gratitude towards them.
[00:27:03] JR: Speaking about up late, what is the typical day look like for you, Chris?
[00:27:08] CC: This is an odd year for typical, but a typical day is a 4:37 a.m. alarm.
[00:27:14] JR: 4:37? Please explain.
[00:27:17] CC: Well, I can hit snooze once, which is no good. So, then I'm up at about 4:42. My clothes are laid out, I get my car, I drive my jeep about seven minutes to my Iron Tribe CrossFit gym for a 5 a.m. workout. And you either love or hate CrossFit. I'm by no means a bodybuilder. But there's something about knowing friends are going to be there, accountability, we got a text Shane, who's coming tomorrow, don't sleep in, don't let the sun catch you sleeping. And then it's over at 5:45. It's done. And they determined it, they pushed it, competition, music's playing, scoreboard. I mean, everything that I like, and it's 5:45.
And then usually I'll run to Starbucks or Waffle House for about an hour and get an hour of alone time, which is not my nature. But I know how needed it is for me just to get my mind right, read scripture. I usually bring in the book of the Bible, I'm reading, plus two books, and I'll read 5 or 10 pages of each. And I'll look at my calendar the day and pray through it. I'll look at my top priorities and my action list of the day. I'll delegate some. I'll reprioritize them, then I'll probably send 10 or 20 emails, then I'll usually work on one project, whatever it is for 10 to 15 minutes. Then I'm home, help get the kids ready for school. I like to be the dad reading the paper. 7 a.m., I’m there with a cup of coffee and reading the paper from 7 to 8, take them to school.
I'll also, this is last couple years, I will then, after taking them to school, I'll stay home from about 8:30 to 10. I've learned that my energy is exciting and highly disruptive. So, when I come to the office with big ideas at 8:30. Everyone's like, “I haven't executed what you talked about yesterday. You're just dreaming there.” So, I've learned if I can stay away for about an hour and a half, let everyone get their feet underneath them. It also helps me work a little bit more.
I learned a lot of that from – I’ve always had that instinct. I am not a morning person. I don't like mornings. But Laura Vanderkam, we had her speak at an event once, wrote, What the Most Successful People Do Before Breakfast. And not exclusively, but the vast majority of people that get a lot done, do it early. And they use their best energy first on the big rocks. And so, for about eight years really, all my 30s, I just turned 40, all my 30s I just started using that strategy of just shifting when I do things and I feel like I get more done by noon than most people do in a full day just because I've done the big stuff first.
[00:29:49] JR: I love it. What time you go to bed?
[00:29:54] CC: Well, I get a little tired after dinner but with four kids and one in high school and middle school and knowing that these are the prime, and two in elementary, the prime years, plus being an extrovert. I don't ever aim for bed. But last night was about 11:45. So, typical nights, it’s probably 11. 11 to 4:37 is the typical time.
[00:30:12] JR: Yeah. So, Chris, you know, this podcast, my work, all about how the gospel of Jesus Christ shapes our work. Since you've been recommending Called to Create to others and thinking about these ideas for many years before that book. I got to ask like, what about this message really fires you up? Like how do you think about this at the highest level, faith, the word, very broad question for you specifically at Booster?
[00:30:35] CC: Gosh, what a great question. I wish we had an hour just to talk through this. Literally for 20 years, I remember sitting at the Stanford University lunch table, pounding the table saying, “With the people in this room, we can change the world.” Just meeting new incredible people. It was a really a 15-year journey for me. Growing up south, Baptist, religion major, seminary student, I thought the only way, not just the best way, the only way to really change the world and glorify God was being a missionary overseas, being a pastor of a church either way, working for a nonprofit, and had an attorney dad –
[00:31:09] JR: Very common belief.
[00:31:11] CC: Yes. Man, I feel like we're close to ending that dichotomy and that wrong theology. I read in Scripture, I saw pause all people were doing, I thought about, “Wait a minute, this idea of nonprofits. Even that is a fairly modern concept.” But it took me meeting people, they were actually doing it. People that I wanted to be like, they were changing the world. They were super missional and generous and kind, and Gospel centered. But I had to see them doing it through their vocations. So, when I moved to Atlanta in ’05, about three years later, through an event I was hosting. I had an amazing life changing opportunity that God sovereignly orchestrated, where I was hosting Dan Cathy, the son of the founder and CEO of Chick-fil-A, at an event, and it went great. And his PR person said, “Hey, Dan's got another event next week in Dallas. Can you and a couple team members come out and host them in Dallas?” I said, “Sure, I got a team in Dallas.”
So, I called them and we kind of rolled out the red carpet and hosted and sound equipment and 3 days, 20 different events. Well, for about five years, once a quarter, I'd go with Dan to a city and kind of host him and watching Dan live his life missionally through his vocation, to me was like, “That's it, I saw it, I get it.” He's not making a distinction. There's not a difference between Sunday and Monday. There's not a difference between the person at his church, the person is employment or the person in the taxi with them. I mean, he is missionally living out his calling and he's using the business as a platform to create human flourishing. So, he has been and is still a mentor of mine, but a hero in so many ways. I got to see it firsthand.
[00:32:50] JR: He's such a great example. I talk about Chick-fil-A frequently in the books and everything. So, you keep talking about changing the world. And as Christ followers, we're called to change the world to make it look like the kingdom. Right? Until the kingdom is here on earth as it is in heaven. How does Booster contribute to that?
[00:33:09] CC: Yeah, I mean, the human flourishing, not every team member is a believer by any means. And as we've grown, I've had to navigate of course, bring your whole person to work, and this is who I am. But I don't assume that maybe because you look like me, or because you work for me that you believe the same way I do. And we work with public and private schools, but the majority public schools, so we have a value-centered content piece. It's very strong and character building, but they're universal truths. They're not Bible verse. We're not walking into public schools, posting Bible verses. I view the impact, I can make the change to world. It's really, really twofold. Internally and externally. Externally $350 million towards schools raised for funds. We think in five years, that number is going to hit a billion and then we now see the needs of schools. So, just raising the funds is significant. But how we do it, the heart, the generosity, the virtues, the kindness, the care, responsiveness.
I mean, customer service is the ultimate way. I saw you had Horst Schulze about a year ago. He was a former board member of ours. Customer service, looking people in the eye, the golden rule, doing unto others. It just gets people's attention. Excellence and care capture people's attention like never before. I think now more as we get post pandemic, people are going to be so used to automation and digitization that an actual human interaction, authentically, will just really get people's attention.
But I've always viewed my greatest passion, our greatest contribution is the young team members we hire if they can drink the Booster Kool Aid, which is really just virtuous leadership, being for each other, expecting the most from each other, challenging one another, affirming one another, speaking words of encouragement and affirmation into their lives, writing people, thank you notes, challenging us to work hard and be excellent, be customer centric, that you might be with us for a year or for 10 years, you leave, you go on to your next career. I mean, one of the greatest compliments I can get is, what did you do to create or transform or give tools to this team member? They're in our organization and they're just killing it. I can't believe that they're only 26 years old.
What's funny is a big prayer of mine, this time last year, pre pandemic was I’m about to turn 40. Lord, how do you want to multiply, not just add, multiply Booster culture? That was my prayer. And I thought it was going to be maybe podcasts or books or speaking engagements, and some of that's happening and might come. But it was not the way I wrote the story. But 800 team members left our company in the past six months. It was very painful. But the multiplication of that, the stories I'm hearing now of thank yous from people I've never met, this is an incredible – and it's not, I didn't do it. I created the space for it. I'm actually a recipient of this culture. I love it. It is greatly growing me every single day. But that's an example of God answering a prayer not in the way I wanted it, but in a way that ultimately was for His glory and to change the world.
[00:36:08] JR: It's interesting to think about how leading a venture with these values that are rooted in theology, but not explicitly so to every member of the team, conforms each team member to the image of Christ, whether or not they know it. You're expecting people to live to a certain set of values, which is making them more like Christ, right? It's an interesting way to think about discipleship.
[00:36:34] CC: For profit 2020 company, I have 10 Bible verses. I mean, literally have them. They go for each of our virtues. But I'm not talking about the verses, I'm talking about growing in wisdom. That means humility. That means taking a notebook. Here's your booster notebook. Are you a learner? To be a leader, you need to be a learner. Do you take notes? Do you listen to podcasts? We have stretch assignments. We have challenges. How many books can you read over the break? I mean, we're always channeling through the virtues, ultimately, for the individual’s good and then for the the good of the community that they live in.
[00:37:08] JR: Yeah, and by the way, going back to the really practical external impact you guys have in connecting Booster’s work to God's work, what you guys do, helping schools raise money is one of the most practical examples I've seen of loving your neighbor as yourself. Students shouldn't go without supplies, right? Like, this just shouldn't be a thing. My sister-in-law, she's a teacher at a title one school. And you know, she makes no money, she shouldn't have to spend money out of her own pocket on pencils. It's crazy. It's a broken part of creation that God is using you and your team to redeem.
[00:37:43] CC: That's exactly right. I could go on for days, but the average teacher spends $655 of their own money for basic stuff.
[00:37:51] JR: That’s insane.
[00:37:52] CC: And we come alongside and through all of our millions of incredibly generous donors throughout the country, we just try to create campaigns, they're easy to give, the compelling reason that helps students, schools and communities.
[00:38:05] JR: I've been talking with some other Christian founders lately about something I want to get your take on. So, you have this massive vision for Boosterthon. I think as entrepreneurs, God gives us these massive visions for what our ventures can become. But there's always a gap, always, between that future vision, and present reality, right? And if we're not careful, I've noticed this in myself, I can grow discontent and ungrateful and even angry at myself and others, at God for not being further along than we are in that gap. So, two questions. One, have you experienced this? And two, how do you work in that gap between future and present in a God honoring way?
[00:38:49] CC: Oh, man. Yes, I think every type A leader listening to this, founder, leader, CEO, entrepreneur is saying, of course, there's frustrations. In the four-part Gospel right now, creation, fall, redemption, restoration. Until we return to the garden, the thorns and thistles they drive us crazy. And God has also equipped us to work the garden and to restore it and redeem it, but it's not without blood, sweat and tears. No, I feel that every single day. And I have to check myself and say, my wife is so self-aware. And in enneagram nine, who is a counselor in so many ways, and you know, ask me questions, how does that make you feel? “I haven't thought about that. I don't know how it makes me feel. I'm just trying to accomplish it. Well, hang on.”
So, I just turned 40, I'm just now starting to realize. This was an entirely different level of depth to my heart, soul. All of these questions that I'm typically in a normal day running too fast to be aware of. So, self-awareness is where it needs to start with me. And then am I pushing and really running hard because I am 100% convinced and call this the right thing to do or am I just doing it by default? And often I'm doing it by default. Am I robbing other people with the opportunity to lead because I'm doing it? Am I creating a power imbalance because I'm taking the lead all the time because I'm the leader in most rooms I walk into? Well, is that good?
So, I mean, I'll often pray before I walk in the room, am I called to lead this room, because I can do it by default. But it's sometimes that's not the most redemptive for the room. I'm taking away opportunity from others, or I'm calling attention to myself that doesn't need to be there or whatever the case might be. Yeah, it's often frustrating when we can't accomplish as much as fast and at the same time, a book I was given by a board member that I'm reading through a page a day, it's that good. I’m 180 pages in. Trusting God, by Jerry Bridges, and it is exceptional.
So, those moments where I don't have to activate and solve is an opportunity for me to trust God and watch him allow someone else to solve it or not to be solved, to me to sit in the mess for a little bit. So, I'm aware that solving everything with excellence immediately is not always the right course of action.
[00:41:09] JR: Speaking of excellence, my team found a video of you three years ago, talk about the company, talking about the company's commitment to excellence. And again, just like any values, it can sound really trite, really standard. But I got to imagine there's like a deeper commitment to excellence, because of your faith. Is that true? And if so, can you talk about that motivation?
[00:41:31] CC: Hundred percent. I mean, the lazy Christian, to me should be an oxymoron. I mean, because of what God has given us, because of His perfection, His gifts, because of the way we, through right theology, see the world we've been created for a short season by Him, He's a creator God, He's given us tools, relationship skills, social capital, and I just think man, excellence, people just stopped short and there's God. Literally, I feel it in my stomach every day, this could be better. This could be better. And I think that is an urge to redeem and restore. I think that's what tending the garden is culture, right? The root word is cultivating, to take something, this is Andy Crouch, Culture Making language, but to take something – here’s 10 acres of land, now let's turn it into something beautiful.
I couldn't plow or plant with anybody at all. I have no horticulture in me. But the idea of taking a blank canvas of an idea and turning it into a business and employing people and giving opportunity and seeing client’s eyes light up. Oh, man, I mean, the delight and really the Shadow Lands of the kingdom, to see someone say, “They went above and beyond.” You see it every time. It's the example I'm sure you've used a million times, but the my pleasure at the Chick-fil--A drive thru.
That's just 1% more than you need to do. But the world doesn't do it. And when you do it, you get people's attention. And you know what, it's fulfilling for you, it's more joyful for you to be excellent and to go above and beyond. Just think about the other person and their next step, and to solve and serve is the most joyful thing you can do.
[00:43:08] JR: Very well said. Three quick questions we wrap up every conversation with. Number one, which books are you recommending or gifting most frequently these days?
[00:43:19] CC: Well, I told you earlier, I've probably given away 50 of Called to Create. With the podcasts, you heard Jordan’s book, buy a few of them, great Christmas gift. Of course, Every Good Endeavor, just was amazing. Trusting God that I just mentioned. Any Andy Crouch book, but if you haven’t read, Culture Making, that was 2008.
[00:43:36] JR: So great.
[00:43:37] CC: You know what I'm reading right now that I can't believe I've never read it. I mean, I went to seminary. I have a Master's in Theology, and I've never read it until right now. Augustine’s City of God. We've all heard of and most of us have read confessions. Yeah, but City of God in this season of 2020, and pandemic, what kingdom? What does it look like? Where is our citizenship? And how do we navigate the already and not yet and what foot is our life in, which kingdom? So, those are books I read, recommend and giveaway.
[00:44:08] JR: That's great. And you guys can find those as always at jordanraynor.com/bookshelf.
All right, Chris, what one person – you can name multiple if you want. But who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how the Gospel influences their work yet?
[00:44:23] CC: Well, I mentioned him earlier. I love to hear Dan Cathy.
[00:44:26] JR: All right, get Dan on. I'm putting the ball in your court there.
[00:44:30] CC: I’ll text him. His right-hand man, Tim Tassopoulos is a mentor. Tim is excellent and amazing. Having the back to back talking about CEO and president roles?
[00:44:38] JR: That'd be awesome. And we already had Dee Ann Turner on.
[00:44:40] CC: She’s amazing. She's a good friend and she is absolutely incredible. A Chick-fil-A board member who's also a board member of ours, and she's one of my mentors, and she is so generous and an incredible friend. We've been friends for 10 years. Cheryl Bachelder, former CEO of Popeye's Chicken. She is just the smartest person in every room and so kind and gracious. She’s amazing. She wrote a great book called Dare to Serve. I love to hear those.
[00:45:04] JR: Those are good answers. All right, let's make it happen. Last question, one piece of advice, you've given a lot, but one piece of advice to leave this audience with. A lot of them entrepreneurs, some of them not, what they share is a deep commitment to masterful work to the glory of God and the good of others. What do you want to leave them with?
[00:45:22] CC: I'm literally looking out my office window at three big six-foot-tall letters, CTW for Change The World. And right above it, in our kitchen area, is the Peter Drucker quote, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.” So, the question is, how do you build a culture that is redemptive and restorative and a vision of the Shadowlands? How can we build a kingdom culture to even those that don't know what the kingdom is? Even to those that say, this is just kind of a work environment with not a ton of faith, believing team members. Well, there's something though attractive about the kingdom, to even those that don't know exactly what it is they can feel it.
So, how do we create a culture that's redemptive? And you know what, we get that right, we attract the best talent, we unleash their talent. Not only is that the right thing to do, and it is Kingdom building, it also will be great for business and get people's attention.
[00:46:17] JR: Chris, I want to commend you for the exceptional work you do in creating a culture that makes people long for the kingdom, I believe. Thank you for your commitment to the ministry of excellence and just for building an incredible venture that loves your customers, your team as yourself.
Hey, if you want to learn more about Chris, you can find out all about him, all about Booster at choosebooster.com. Chris, thank you so much for hanging out with me.
[00:46:43] CC: Jordan, God bless you. Thanks for the opportunity.
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[00:46:47] JR: Man, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode as much as I enjoyed recording it. Phenomenal episode, the Call to Mastery. Hey, if you're enjoying the show, make sure you subscribe to the Call to Mastery so you never miss an episode in the future. If you're already subscribed, do me a huge favor, take 30 seconds right now. Go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review of the show so that more people can find great wisdom, like what Chris shared with us today. Hey, thank you guys so much for listening. I'll see you next week.
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