Get clear with “Clarity Carla”
Jordan Raynor sits down with Carla H. Hayden, COO of hope*writers, to talk about the one question that will help force clarity at work, even if you’re not the boss, 3 excellent tips for showing love to remote teams, and how a personal quarterly retreat became an integral part of Carla’s work rhythms.
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[00:00:05] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I host a conversation with a Christian who is pursuing world-class mastery of their vocation. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits, and how their faith influences their work.
Today's guests for Episode 101 is Carla Hayden. She's the COO of Hope Writers, which is a community of writers co-founded by Emily P. Freeman, who is a friend of mine, a friend of this podcast. Carla is a world class leader and operator currently running a team of about 50 people at Hope Writers.
We recently sat down and talked about the one question that can help you force clarity in meetings at work, even if you're not the boss. Carla shared three excellent tips for showing love to remote teams. And we talked about how a personal quarterly retreat became an integral part of Carla’s life and Carla's work rhythms. And ironically, it's kind of how Carla and I first connected was as a result of an encounter she had at one of those quarterly retreats. I think you guys are going to love that story.
Hey, since this is Episode 101, I've decided to make a couple of minor tweaks, don't worry, we're not changing the whole shell. But this felt like the right time to make a couple of changes I've been wanting to make for a while. So, here they are. Number one, instead of talking about how the guest’s faith influences their work at the end of these episodes, we've decided to put those questions closer to the top. Number one, because that's the content you all love the most, and number two that ensures that if you don't care about how a particular person has mastered their craft, you can easily skip over that content. You can listen to the first half all about how the gospel shapes their work, and then move on.
Here's the second change we're making; I'm tweaking the last question. We love these three final questions we ask each of our guests. I decided to tweak the last one just a little bit. I think you're going to like the change. But you’re going to have to wait to the end of this episode to hear it. So, please enjoy this episode with my friend, Carla Hayden.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:02:41] JR: Carla Hayden, longtime listener, first time caller, thanks for being here.
[00:02:46] CH: This is so exciting for me, Jordan. This is such a privilege to be here and to join you and your audience today. This podcast has meant so much to me and my personal and professional development. So, it's awesome to be able to give back to the community.
[00:02:58] JR: I love it. So, first of all, let me just say, there's a lot riding on this, because I've always said the best guests listen to the show. So, we're expecting you to be one of the best guests. No pressure whatsoever.
[00:03:09] CH: No pressure. It’s fine.
[00:03:12] JR: But I love asking people in the audience, what's your favorite episode or episodes? Like what's really resonated with you?
[00:03:17] CH: Oh, man, so many. Obviously, as a female in leadership, the ones that really stand out to me are Carly Fiorina, that was a fantastic one. Dr. Gisela was fantastic. Love that one. That one really shocked me just in terms of what she brought to the table with her background in the vineyard and how that relates to her faith. Michelle Meyers, of course. Emily P. Freeman, that goes without saying.
[00:03:43] JR: Yeah, you have to say that.
[00:03:45] CH: I have to. She's kind of my boss. But also, always love hearing Horst Schulze, and then of course, Jon Acuff, one of your more recent ones. He was so fun.
[00:03:54] JR: Jon is a lot of fun. When you get to talk about Yonny on a podcast episode. That's a win. That is great.
[00:04:02] CH: When you guys recommended that, that immediately went into my Spotify, rotation of my –
[00:04:07] JR: It really is great.
[00:04:08] CH: I have a working and reading playlist, and that's on there, as well as The Crown seasons one and two. Thank you, Jordan.
[00:04:14] JR: You are so welcome. I'm not kidding when I say it's pretty much the only thing I’ve listened to for the last three years, is The Crown soundtrack. Duck Shoot. If you're looking for a track, go find Duck Shoot from The Crown. It's great writing music.
So, all right. Carla, I've heard a lot of great stories about how my books have impacted readers' lives. By the way, if you're listening and have one of those stories, I love reading them. You can send me an email at jordan@jordanraynor.com and I'll check it out. But I think Carla, I think your story takes the cake about Master of One. We talked about it months ago. Can you share that story with us here?
[00:04:53] CH: Yeah, absolutely. So, I was on your launch team for both Called to Create and Master of One. So, I happened to get a launch team copy. One of the things that I do and I've been doing for the last couple of years is I take a quarterly personal retreat. So, I get away from my home, I go to a little Airbnb about an hour and a half north of where I live. I just bring stuff with me. I bring my journal, my Bible, my laptop, some books, all the things.
It was January of 2020. I was heading to my quarterly retreat and my prayer on my way up was, “Lord, I need clarity.” I knew that my current assignment was coming to an end, but I didn't know what the next step was going to be. I didn't know how it was going to end or when, I just had a feeling. And so, I needed clarity from the Lord on, “What direction do I take? Do I keep going the same path in the same vertical that I had been working?” But it was pretty predictable and I knew that there was going to be a cap to my income earning and even just my ability to grow? Or do I step over here and try something new? I really didn't have clarity.
So, I get up to the place, the Airbnb, and I've got your book in my bag.
[00:06:08] JR: And this is before it's released, right? This is like a couple of weeks where it's released?
[00:06:11] CH: Yeah, it's the launch copy. So, I get up there and I greet the proprietors of the house. We, of course, had become friends over time, because I'm there every quarter. They said, “How are you doing? What's new?” I just shared with them exactly what I just said to you. I said, “So, I'm just really praying for clarity.” And she goes over to her coffee table, and she grabs a copy of Master of One. She's also on your launch team. She says, “You have to read this book.” I reach into my bag, and I pull out my copy and I said, “Well, apparently I do.”
So, for the next two days, I was huddled into the tiny shed in Fort Wayne, Indiana, reading your book. I had downloaded the journal that you provide, the free journal that you can get online and really spent the weekend dialoguing with the Lord about what is my one thing. So, that was what came out of that weekend. Three months later, I was hired to be COO for Hope Writers. And a month after I started, you were a guest on one of our Tuesday Teachings. It was just, even being here today and talking with you is such a full circle moment for me.
[00:07:19] JR: I cannot believe that two launch team members met in the real world like this. The launch seemed large, right? I think we had a thousand people, but it's not that large. Just wild. I mean, so clear. I love these moments when you see so clearly the Lord's hand on circumstances. A circumstance that cannot be explained by reason. So, I'm curious, what's your one thing, Carla?
[00:07:47] CH: My one thing is clarity. I really bring clarity to wherever I go. So, when we talk about our one thing, we talk about our superpower, our vocation if you will, God has used many different vehicles. For me, the most recent of course, being places of leadership. But that seems to be the thing that I bring to the table. Even within Hope Writers, I'm known as Clarity Carla, and I have actual Calendly invites that people can book, one to one, with Clarity Carla. What’s so fabulous about it is, I will have meetings with team members where they will want clarity on their quarterly work or something that was shared in a meeting, and what's really awesome is that there isn't this great divide between a team member and the COO. It's just meeting with Clarity Carla.
To give you an idea of what that looks like, one of the most recent meetings I had with a team member, she was determining next steps for herself, for her role, for even just her own personal path. About halfway through what she's talking about, there were tears and there were all of these things, and she said, “I'm so sorry, I don't think I'm being clear.” And I said, “No, that's not your job. That's my job. You get to come to me with your ball.” The way that I picture it in my mind, it's like this big ball of Christmas lights that are all tangled up and you get to just come to me with that and we get to sort it out together. I ask you good and deep questions, and we get to the root of an issue. And from there, you get clarity.
What's so amazing is that more often than not, I see a visible change in their countenance. They look lighter. Oftentimes there's an audible sigh of relief by the end of their time with me. That to me is like, “Yep, I'm in the right place. I'm doing the right thing.”
[00:09:35] JR: I love that so much. Yeah, that's a really critical skill for great operators. So, before we talk more about your role, let's back up for just a second. For those who don't know, explain in 30 seconds, what's Hope Writers?
[00:09:49] CH: Hope Writers is an online membership community for writers who want to make progress, who want to learn how to balance the art and the craft of writing, with the business of publishing. So, we have this awesome opportunity to provide an environment for writers. It's online. So, you have an online community. We also have a resource library and teaching, over a hundred teachings and trainings from industry professionals, much like yourself, that are, they’re in it. They're in the trenches. They're in the publishing world, or the writing world, or the podcasting world.
We give our members the opportunity to tap into those resources and then do it with a community of people that understand what that is like. Because although the writing life itself you might have to do alone, you don't have to be lonely. You can do it with a community of people that understand what it's like to be a writer.
[00:10:40] JR: I love that. That's good. And of course, co-founded by my friend Emily P. Freeman, who is our guest on, I think it’s Episode – let me look, right here, Episode 45 of The Call to Mastery.
Okay, so that's what Hope Writers is. You’re Clarity Carla, your title is COO. What role does your role entail as COO?
[00:11:02] CH: It has a lot to do with being a filter for the visionaries. Most companies tend to have one visionary and one integrator. Our company is the unicorn company. I have three visionaries to one integrator, so go figure how that works out.
[00:11:15] JR: That sounds fun.
[00:11:18] CH: Yeah. Well, that's how you know that this role was designed just for me, because I don't recommend this honestly. And to be quite frank, I don't know if I could do this job with three visionaries that weren't these specific people. That wasn't Emily P. Freeman and Brian Dixon and Gary Moreland. The way that we work together as a team is really nothing short of just God's hand and God's favor on that.
But my role as Chief Operating Officer is to be a filter for the visionaries. Oftentimes in companies, you have visionaries that, the way that I liken it, it's a lot like having a prophetic word. Sometimes when you get a prophetic word it's for right now, and sometimes it's for 10 years from now. When you have companies that have visionary leaders, but no integrator to filter that, the visionary just speaks what they see. It's very confusing to the people that are on the line, because they're working on the last thing that the visionary said, and so when the visionary speaks out something that is fresh and new, it's like, “Wait, are we supposed to stop doing what we're doing now and jump onto that?”
So, really, as Chief Operating Officer and integrator, I'm there to help make sure that we are building systems and processes that are scalable, that they're sustainable, that are healthy for the organization, the team members, the people that we serve, and that we're – it’s not, “No,” it's just, “Not now”, sometimes, and being able to give voice at the leadership table for some of those things that visionaries tend to miss when they are seeing 5 and 10 years down the road.
[00:12:54] JR: That's really good. I'm thinking back to – so I tend to be a more visionary leader. I remember one experience I had when I was CEO of Threshold, and we were growing really quickly. During one of our quarterly reviews – I always ask my team members in quarterly reviews, “What's one thing I can be doing to be a better leader of the team?” I force them to give me an answer. This one really cut to the core because it was so true. This person said, “Yeah, a lot of times Jordan, when we're having brainstorming meetings or whatever, you cast this crazy vision, but don't make a firm decision as to whether or not we're doing it or when we're doing it, and that's a problem.” So, you need somebody to force that clarity.
All right, Carla, I want to talk for a minute about how your faith as a Christ follower influences your work and then we'll come back to how you've mastered this craft as an operator. So, Hope Writers is founded by a few Christians, including Emily, but the business serves people of all faiths. Is that right?
[00:13:55] CH: Correct. Yeah, that's correct.
[00:13:56] JR: But you very much still view this work as ministry and I'd love to hear you talk about why. How do you see your work connecting to God's work in the world?
[00:14:08] CH: Well, one of the things that I think about is, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is Matthew 25-23. When the master says to the servant, “Well done, good and faithful servant, you have been faithful and trustworthy over a little. I'll put you in charge of many things, sharing the joy of your master.” Obviously, this verse is set inside the Parable of the Talents and there's a similar telling of that in Luke 19. And so, depending on which translation or which version you're reading, it's 10, 5 and 1 Talents or it's 5, 2 and 1 Talents. But either way, my faith tells me that one day I will stand before my master and I will give an account of what he has entrusted to me, to my life, my marriage, motherhood, my ministry, but also my influence in the marketplace.
So, when I stand before Him, that's what I want to hear. I want to hear, “Well done good and faithful servant. You have been faithful and trustworthy.” I want to share in His joy over me that I spent my life trusting Him enough to step out and do what He called me to do, even when it was hard, even when I didn't fully see or understand the plan. So, for me, I pursue mastery because I don't want to stand before Him on that day knowing that there was more that could have been done, or having settled for mediocrity.
So, I just bring that into my job. I've worked in companies where there wasn't Christian leadership, so it’s not just limited to the fact that the founders of Hope Writers happened to share my same faith. It actually has nothing to do with the company I'm in. It has everything to do with what my master has entrusted to me. If that's one Talent, if it's 5, if it's 10, that's what I'm accountable for.
[00:15:54] JR: Amen. So, so beautifully said. What does good stewardship of those Talents look like? So, on the one hand, it is the pursuit of mastery, and just honing our craft. Not the attainment of mastery, but the pursuit of it. What else do you think constitutes good stewardship of what the master has given us, Carla?
[00:16:16] CH: Wow. Well, I know one of the other ways that you kind of ask this question is, “What do world class people, people who are world class at their vocation –.” So, when I think about that, when I think about my path to where I am today, one of the things that I think is really common and essential is, if you want to be a good leader, you have to first serve somebody else's vision. You have to be faithful to the work and the assignment that God gives you, even when it's in the hidden place, even when it's in the secret place. I can look back over the course of my career. We're talking everything from being a receptionist, to being a stay at home mom, that homeschooled her kids. I had no platform. I was at home in a little 1,500 square foot ranch with three kids and I was homeschooling. I had never done that before.
But what is consistent in my life and in my career is being faithful to the assignment that God has given me, and being willing to serve someone else's vision. And from that comes a building of empathy. I think that's what separates good leaders from great ones, is that they understand what that's like. They're not so removed from the line, if you will, that they forget that these are people that you're serving, and you're leading, and they are part of families, and they're part of communities. So, the decisions that you make in a meeting or in an office impact more than just the bottom line. So, I think that's one of the things that I would say.
Then, I think, another thing is having a high level of self-awareness, knowing what makes you tick, what you bring to the table, focusing on things that are the highest and best use of your time. That's one of those other things. And then I think finally, I would just say, investing in your own development. I read books, I go to conferences, obviously listen to podcasts, but I open myself up to mentoring and having advisory boards. Because I understand that regardless of my title, I am a leader and I have the ability to impact and influence other people. So, I want to make sure that I am prioritizing learning because being a constant learner helps me to be a better leader.
[00:18:30] JR: Yeah, amen. Very well said. It's this posture of humility, of recognizing that regardless of the title, we all still have a lot more to learn than we already have learned. Relatively, there's a lot more left to learn. So, I'm curious, you're in this role of COO, which typically is really a lot about people development. I'm curious if you view part of your job as discipleship, almost, of the team members that serve the organization?
[00:19:01] CH: Yeah, I really do. I think about, in the New Testament, when Paul says, “Follow me as I follow Christ.” And that's really how I view my role. It's not like I'm posting on the all-team calendar, “Hey, I'm having a Bible study.” It's not something as overt as that, although I have had a small handful of my team reach out to me beyond the 9 to 5 and say, “Will you mentor me?” We have a lot of young team members who are young in their marriage or their motherhood. But again, having a female leader lead the company is something that isn't as common as we'd like to believe that it is. So, there is an opportunity for me to be very intentional. But just how I walk through my day is how I disciple people. For example, as we talked about earlier, I have an open-door policy and they can schedule one to one with Clarity Carla, and they're able to come to me with that maybe confusion or chaos in their mind, the mental clutter and get clarity from that.
So, my hope is that in those experiences, whether or not they share my faith, is that they are experiencing the love and the peace of the Holy Spirit and they are recognizing that, “Oh, like, I don't have to have it all together to go to God. I can come to him with my jumbled mess of Christmas lights and he can help me sort through this.”
The other thing that I think that I do is that, as COO, I'm a leader of leaders, which means that eventually some of my team will move on to other positions and opportunities outside of our organization. So, part of discipling them is first to cheer them on and to congratulate them on the promotion that they're getting from the Lord. And then I help them wrap up their assignments so that they're leaving well, because that's our model. Jesus finished well and so that's something that we should do in our work here on Earth.
[00:20:57] JR: That's really an interesting point. Because a lot of times, when we think our assignment’s up, it's easy to coast, it's easy to just kind of check out of that role, but finishing strong is so, so important. How do you ensure that they do that? What does it look like for them to finish strong in those roles?
[00:21:16] CH: Well, most recently, we had a team member that had to leave, and she messaged me and said, “Hey, this is my time, I got another position and I'm giving my two weeks.” I said, “Okay, what do you need me to do? Do you need me to cascade that? How do you want me to handle that?” She said, “Yeah, if you wouldn't mind.” And she's a younger team member, and I said, “Okay, I'm going to take off my COO hat for right now. And I'm going to put on my mentoring hat, my Mama Hayden hat and I am going to coach you in something. When you are leaving a position, you should speak directly to your supervisor about it and you should say, “This is the last day. I want to make sure that you are successful in the projects that are still on the table. What do you need from me in order to be successful?’”
So, just even giving them practical tips on how to carry themselves is so important. And then again, I think being willing to have hard conversations. One of the things that my team has given me feedback about is when I ask them, “How do you see me leading you well?” One of the more common answers is, “We know that we're going to get the straight truth from you. But even when they're hard words, you do it with such kindness, and with such clarity”, and I think that that's what people are looking for. They're not looking for leaders that are going to dance around the subject. They don't want to be blindsided. They don't have to know everything at every moment. But they do need to know what is going to impact them when it's appropriate. And that is the role of the leader.
[00:22:45] JR: You and I have been connected for, I don't know, a while now. I'm ashamed to say I hadn't thought of having you on the podcast until, I don't know, a couple months ago, I posted on Instagram and I said, “Hey, who are the most exceptional Christian professionals you know?” I swear every single member of your team messaged me your name, like no joke. It was incredible. “It's Carla Hayden, Carla Hayden, Carla Hayden, over and over. Clarity Carla.”
So, at the risk of asking you to toot your own horn a little bit, like why do you think your team is so enthusiastic about your leadership? Is it that aspect of speaking truth directly? Why do you think they're so excited to follow you?
[00:23:27] CH: I think because they know, through my words and my actions and my consistency over time, that I genuinely love and care about them. They are not numbers to me. They aren't a means to an end. I am a heart-first leader, which is unusual. For those of you who know about the enneagram type, I'm an enneagram eight. So, I am meant to be in leadership. I'm meant to kind of command and captain things. But I do it from a heart position. So, because of that, I genuinely want what's best for people and I want what's best for the organization. Sometimes what's best is having hard conversations, and I think people really appreciate that.
I think the other thing is that I am a woman of integrity. And when I think about the word integrity, it means whole. So, who they see in a weekly L-10 meeting is the same person they see on Instagram and it's the same person that they see in these one to one clarity meetings, I'm the same person. And so they know that they can trust things that I'm saying, because I've proven over time that I will be honest with you and I will help you through the hard things and I'm going to help you make difficult decisions and I'm able to separate – I don't like to say, “Hey, it's just business, it's not personal.” Because that's not true. We are people. We are persons.
But I am able to say, “Okay, actually what we're talking about are two separate issues. So, let's separate them out and then we're able to really get to the root.” It's almost like being a medical professional. You don't just treat some of the symptoms. You really try to get down to the root of it and I think that that's something that my team has come to appreciate about me.
[00:25:17] JR: I love the first line of your official bio. It says, quote, “Carla Hayden is passionate about training and equipping people to be grownups in life and business.” I love that so much. I've talked a lot in the past about hiring grownups. I know what that means to me. What does that mean to you? What does it look like to be a grown up at work?
[00:25:39] CH: Gosh, again, it goes back to doing hard things, being willing to say hard things, stepping outside of your comfort zone. But for me, it probably looks different for each individual person. Sometimes it's about having a hard conversation with your supervisor. Sometimes it's about owning your own. That's a big part that I see a lot is, it's not about blame shifting. You have to, as a leader, establish a culture of honor, where making mistakes is okay. It's human and you can work through it together as a team. It's about having values, core values, or core principles that aren't just words on a wall or on a website, but things that you live out even when it's difficult.
But I really believe that helping people be grownups, it allows them to walk in ever-increasing maturity in every aspect of their lives. It's important because when you can handle greater levels of responsibility and prosperity, you're really walking in God's design for you. That's what he's calling us to do. We have to mature. We have a very mature head in Jesus. So, we can't be a weak and frail body. So, for me, it's doing that in the way that I parent my children and I carry that same approach to my workplace. Without sounding condescending, it's like children. I have 45 children.
[00:27:09] JR: I totally get it. We talked about clarity. Give us some practical tips for how you force clarity amongst the team. What's your approach in these Clarity Carla meetings, for forcing clarity on a particular decision or making sure the two teams are clear, that something's been cleared up between the two of them? How do you approach that?
[00:27:29] CH: Well, one of the things that I think helps us quite a bit is at Hope Writers, we follow the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS. We follow that for the way that we operate our company. So, we have weekly L-10 meetings that are 90 minutes in length. They start on time, they end on time. They're on the same exact day and time of the week. So, every department, every team within Hope Writers, has their own L-10 meeting. And there's a specific agenda and cadence that we follow.
One of the aspects of that meeting is having an issues list. So, you put on there, all of your issues, and issues aren't necessarily just bad things. They are opportunities, but they're also ideas and things that we could do in the future. What are the things that are maybe keeping us from accomplishing the goals and the deliverables that we have in any particular quarter or year? So, part of really doing the issues section well, which it's called IDS. You identify the root, you discuss potential solutions or other issues that might come up, and then you solve it. Sometimes a solve is giving somebody an action step or a to-do. Sometimes a solve is, “This is not our issue to discuss, we need to kick this over to a different team.”
So, there's a variety of different things to do. But it's what helps to keep us on track as a team, because again, when you have visionaries leading, there's a lot of great ideas that are flowing, but they're not necessarily to be executed on at that moment, or in that quarter. So, that's one way that we keep clarity.
The second thing is communication and cascading messages. So, one of my main roles is making sure that I integrate the major functions of the company in a harmonious way. And so that is making sure that I'm listening to the information and listening for things that are being discussed amongst a certain team that may impact another team member or another team or a future project and making sure that I'm saying with my out-loud voice, “Okay, so what's the next step?” And always drilling it down. “So, what's the next step? So, what do we need to do? So, who needs to be told?” So, asking those questions until everybody is clear when we get out of that meeting.
Because I think for people who work in corporate settings, they hate meetings, meetings are not always productive. They drone on, we talk about the same thing over and over, and so nothing really gets accomplished or not as much gets accomplished. So, that's what that looks like. And then even in my one to one with Clarity Carla meetings, it's the same thing. It's asking questions, it's helping them come to a conclusion. And we see that. We see that in the way that God deals with us. God is a question asker. It's not because he doesn't have the answer, he's wanting to help us align with what he already knows. So, it's not that I always have the answer, but I'm helping my people align with what is true in that moment.
[00:30:38] JR: It's good. Are you a fan of David Allen's Getting Things Done? Have you read that?
[00:30:42] CH: You've talked about it before and I think I've downloaded some of his stuff.
[00:30:45] JR: I'm obsessed with the GTD methodology. But it's the power of this question, like, “What's the next action?” And never ending a meeting, if you take one thing from this podcast from what I've said, and really just saying, in a different way that Carla's already said it, ending meetings with, “What's the next action?” will create so much clarity, and forcing everybody to stay seated until that question is answered.
But I love that you pointed out that Jesus led with questions too. It's so true. I think about the number of times he asked people that he was about to heal, “What do you want me to do for you? What do you want?” He knew, right? But he's getting them to articulate it. He's leading through questions that force introspection. It sounds like that's a lot like how you lead.
[00:31:34] CH: It is. And it's introspection and it's conversation. When Jesus asks us closed questions, when the Holy Spirit, in your quiet time, asks you those questions, he doesn't just leave you in a lurch. It's not, “Hey, figure it out.” It's a prompting, and it is from a place of love. Because if we're doing anything that isn't in alignment with his plans, we're going to be frustrated. We're going to be in a place of mental clutter and so that's another way to, harking back to your earlier question about how am I a heart leader, I ask those questions because I want the people that I lead to walk in a place of freedom, and you can't be free if you have your mind in a jumbled mess, because you aren't really sure what the issue is that you're trying to solve. So, that's one of the ways that I do that.
[00:32:22] JR: So, your team's fully remote.
[00:32:23] CH: Yes.
[00:32:24] JR: I know a lot of people over the last year have been trying to figure out how to make that transition from in-person to remote. What tips do you have for them? For managing a remote team well?
[00:32:34] CH: Well, one of the things is that you have to be so intentional about creating opportunities for connection that would otherwise have happened organically. So, when I first started with Hope Writers over a year ago now, everybody, at least from the United States perspective, was just getting into this lockdown state. Everybody was working from home. But there was not going to be a situation where I was, quote, “going back to a brick and mortar building”. Hope Writers is a 100% distributed team.
So, what I knew when I stepped into that first Zoom room with the team, was, “How am I going to remember where everybody sits?” Because when you're in a brick and mortar building, you can kind of remember. So and so is an accounting and they sit over here, and there's context clues to help you navigate those first few days or weeks in a company. So, that was the first thing that I did was I said, “Hey, I'd love to meet with each one of you one to one”, which is what I would have done in a building. But the difference is that when the new COO says they want to meet with you, I mean, I imagine that most people are feeling like they've just been called to the principal's office, not that it's going to be this really casual situation.
So, I positioned it where I called it Coffee with Carla. I sent everyone a 30-minute calendar invite with an email in advance that just said, “These are some things you can be thinking about in preparation for our time.” And Jordan, it wasn't, “Tell me about your job. Tell me all the things that you do every single day. I want a time-study.” It was, “What's your favorite color? What scent do you love the most? What's your enneagram number?” I actually borrowed one of your questions, “What book do you gift or recommend the most to others?” Because that tells me who you are as a person. It tells me what makes you tick. It tells me what you love doing.
And I have, to date, done over 50 of these Coffee with Carla meetings. Some would say, “Are you kidding me? You're a COO, that's what you're spending your time doing?” I will tell you right now, that's one of the reasons my team loves me. It’s because I invest in them. Because I put the numbers aside for a minute and I said, “Tell me about you. How did you hear about Hope Writers? How did you come to this role? What was it about the position that intrigued you? What are some opportunities that you see? Let's just talk, person to person.” That's what would have happened if I was in a brick and mortar building, I would have said, “Hey, do you want to run to Starbucks with me? Do you want to go grab lunch?” But I don't have that luxury. So, I have to build that in intentionally.
One of the other things that I do is I host a monthly, virtual happy hour and it's called Cocktails with Carla.
[00:35:20] JR: I love it.
[00:35:20] CH: That is obviously optional. But we pay for them to be there if they opt in, because this is your chance to have cross functional connection. So, instead of it being one to one with me, now you're in a Zoom room with about eight other people that may or may not be on your team, which means you don't get to see them or talk to them on a daily basis. So, I put out a question of the month, they sign up through a scheduling tool, and then we talk about it. And we talk about fun things like, “If time and money were no object, what is your dream vacation? Or if you could get paid for one of your hobbies, what would it be?” And it just starts to build connection, and it builds culture.
So, those are some of the things that we do from a really intentional standpoint. And then as I mentioned, clear and consistent communication. We know that people need to hear things a minimum of seven times before they remember it, before they hear it, before they truly assimilate it. So, it's constantly repeating things. It's cascading those messages from the different L-10 meetings. It's having a very clear accountability chart where people know, not just the title and the name, but who does what in the company so they can go directly to that person. It's having a quarterly state of the company, all team meetings that we record, that we make available to those who can't join. But where we review what our core values are, we talk about the initiatives for that quarter. We tell them how we got there, so that they understand the why.
And then every week, I have picked up the baton from Emily. Emily used to do what's called a Monday Hello, which is kind of a mix between a principal’s weekly announcement to, I don't know, like a little radio show. So, every Monday around 1 PM Eastern, I get on our all-team Voxer and I give the entire team department updates. I give them heads up and happenings. I tell them whose birthday it is that week. And then I always close with a quote or an encouraging message, which again, is something that Emily started that I just carried forward because our team loved it so much because people need to be encouraged. You can't encourage your team enough.
[00:37:30] JR: Yeah, that's really good. So, you've read Master of One. I'm really curious, what from the book has stuck with you, and has really helped you cultivate mastery of your craft?
[00:37:43] CH: I think the story that stuck out to me the most, because I literally took notes on every single chapter, but the one that stuck out to me the most was the story about Chip and Joanna Gaines. And really, what I took away from that was the reality that you can have all that this life promises you. You can have fame, and fortune, and a platform and all of those things. But that God's assignment for you has to be the trump card. It has to be the thing that you lean into the most and that really gave me so much courage.
Because in my life, I have an opportunity to say yes to a lot of things. And sometimes, the best “yes” is a “no” to other things. The thing that I try to remind myself and other people that I’m mentoring is that sometimes it's not “no” forever, it's just “no for now” and to make that distinction. Because this world will tell you, “You've got to get it now. You've got to do it now. Swipe up now.”
[00:38:42] JR: “Once in a lifetime opportunity.”
[00:38:44] CH: “Once in a lifetime. Doors are closing.” That's true in some areas. But again, it goes back to what I was sharing earlier, being faithful to the assignment that God has given you in this season and not living from a place of lack, not living from that spirit of lack, but really living from a spirit of abundance that if it's meant for me, then it'll be better for me when I walk in the grace of God for that, versus trying to make it happen for myself.
[00:39:12] JR: That’s really good. Hey, what does your day look like? Typical day from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed?
[00:39:17] CH: I probably wake up later than most of your other guests. I've listened to just about every single podcast and I’m like –
[00:39:26] JR: We wake up really early on this show.
[00:39:29] CH: Your team wakes – yes. You and all the people that have been on this podcast are like 4:30 AM people.
[00:39:33] JR: Which is funny because statistically it actually doesn't make sense. 30% of people are night owls.
[00:39:40] CH: Exactly.
[00:39:40] JR: So, I'm glad you're going to disrupt the status quo here.
[00:39:44] CH: Oh, good. Okay, so then I can take off the layer of shame that I have of not waking up at 4:30? No, I tend to go to bed later. I don't know if it's chicken or the egg. Is it, I'm going to bed later because I’m waking up later? Who knows? But on a typical day, I get up about 6:30 or 7 and the very first thing that I do is I pour myself a cup of coffee, I diffuse my Frankincense essential oils, and I open my Bible every single day. I am in the Word every single day. Sometimes I'm following a specific Bible reading plan, or a study. And sometimes, like right now, I will choose a book to study. I'm in the Book of John right now, and I just take it verse by verse, and I allow the Holy Spirit to reveal things to me during my reading. I'll oftentimes get teachings or writing seats that come to me, and so I will journal, and I'll have a dialogue with God.
To be clear, I'm not hearing his voice audibly. But I am getting an impression in my spirit. So, I want to make sure that I'm having that conversation with him during that time. It isn't just reading it like it's a textbook. It's a conversation with the Lord. So, if he's showing me something in there, I want to make sure that I'm capturing it and having that dialogue back with him. Sometimes, I'll oftentimes just let it marinate, because, again, getting clarity, “Is this just for me, or am I supposed to share it?” And having that discernment there.
But from there, after I have my quiet time I get in the shower, I get ready for my day, and that's really when I'm listening to my podcasts. So, every Monday it's Jordan’s podcast. You're on a rotation, Jordan.
[00:41:21] JR: I love it.
[00:41:23] CH: So, I listen to your podcast and it really just sets my mind for the day. And then I usually start my workday around 9 or 9:30. Since we're a 100% distributed team, my role at Hope Writers requires me to be in a lot of meetings and on the Voxer communication app constantly. So, that's really the bulk of my day. I have probably about 10 standing meetings a week, those L-10 meetings that I was telling you about, because I have to be in every one of them so that I can integrate the functions of the company. I don't have the benefit of being in an office where I get to hear things as I'm passing people's desks. So, I literally have to be in every one of those meetings and then that leaves me with about 7 to 10 additional meetings a week that people will put on my calendar. So, my Monday through Friday is typically me in front of my computer in some Zoom room or another. But I will tell you, I do have a no-meeting-Monday policy and I don't take any meetings before 9.
[00:42:23] JR: I love it. That's great. So, you mentioned – I want to go back to this quarterly retreat idea because you talked about daily routine, I love this quarterly routine you have. What was the impetus for doing this and what's it meant to you?
[00:42:38] CH: Yeah, the impetus was that I had discovered some health conditions that had just evolved over time, I think from burning out is really what it came down to. I was experiencing extreme fatigue that I couldn't shake, that no amount of caffeine was – it was an internal fatigue. It wasn't like, “I'm sleepy.” It was, “I am dragging myself through the day. As a result, my immune system is not functioning at its highest and best.” So, I would get a common cold and be down for three weeks. That was really the first tip to me that something was not right, because I am not the kind of person that gets sick on a regular basis. So, when that happened, I thought, “No, something's wrong.”
I went to see a doctor, I saw a holistic health practitioner, I saw my massage therapist, all the things and it was finally determined, like, “You need to rest.” I thought, “I don't know what you're talking about. I don't understand those four letters that you're saying.” I talked to a good friend who is also a biblical counselor and he said, “Well, in order for you to rest, you first have to relax. So, when was the last time you took a vacation that you did nothing?” Once again, being an enneagram eight, being a leader, I'm like, “I don't understand. What do you mean, do nothing? I don't understand those words.”
I realized that there was one vacation that I took in my life that was, that's what I did, I rented a condo in Gulf Shores and that was probably the closest thing to doing nothing, was just hanging out and not feeling the need to be a tourist anywhere. I said that that's not sustainable. I'm in the Indianapolis area. That's a good 13-hour drive for me. I spent quite a bit of money and that's not something I can do on a regular basis. That's really when I got this idea of, “Well, why don't I go somewhere that's local, that is within driving distance of my home, that isn't going to break the bank, that I can do, that becomes part of my rhythm.” And that's when I found this Airbnb called the Tiny Shed in Fort Wayne. Again, they are on your launch team.
[00:44:41] JR: I gotta meet the Tiny Shed people. This is awesome.
[00:44:43] CH: You do. So, that was my first thing. It was like, “Okay, it's an hour and a half away. It's less than $50 a night. I can do this. I can afford this. I can afford it in my financial budget. I can afford it in my time budget. I can go for a couple of days and then we'll see how it goes.” It didn't start off as being a quarterly retreat. It started off as being a one time thing for me to get away. But what I discovered after that first one was, “Oh, no. I need to do this every single quarter.”
So, for me, it becomes a lot like getting your oil changed in your car, it becomes maintenance. So, the impetus of it was, “We have an emergency, and we need to fix this.” Now, it's maintenance. It's about caring for this vehicle, this physical vehicle that God has put my spirit in, and making sure that I am taking care of it. Like I mentioned, I bring all the tools. I bring everything that I think I could possibly need on this retreat. But I let God set the agenda. So, I'll pray about it. I'll know that it's coming. I'll ask him what we're going to focus on so that I can make sure that I have what I need. But I just let him set it.
Sometimes what that looks like is me in the tiny shed for three days crying and sleeping, and noshing on charcuterie board items. Sometimes it is, “Hey, check out this new coffee shop and be there for a few hours and read this fiction novel and just enjoy life.” So, there isn't a formula to it, but there is an intentionality. There is a scheduling it on my calendar, clearing out all the things, making sure that the people in my life know that I am available if there's an emergency, but otherwise, please do not text me and ask me how to heat up last night's pizza. I'm not available for those questions.
[00:46:32] JR: That’s something I would do, a message I would send to my wife.
[00:46:35] CH: Yeah, exactly. “Where do I find this?” I'm not available for that. So, that's what that looks like.
[00:46:41] JR: You breezed past this. I want to go back to it. The difference between relaxing and resting. How do people find the difference between those two things?
[00:46:49] CH: Well, I don't know from a psychology standpoint, the difference between the two.
[00:46:53] JR: Sure. How does Clarity Carla define it?
[00:46:56] CH: As Clarity Carla, to me when I envisioned relaxing, it was, the way that it happens for me is, “Hey, those first 24 hours on my retreat. I'm going out to eat. I'm watching Netflix.” I don't have a lot of pressure on myself to get real deep and spiritual in those first 24 hours. I just kind of turn off the notifications but I'm still slightly plugged in. But I'm enjoying myself. So, one of the things that I do when I get up to Fort Wayne is, I go to a place called The Hoppy Gnome and I get three street tacos and a flight of beer.
[00:47:28] JR: That sounds amazing. I really want to go to The Hoppy Gnome.
[00:47:31] CH: Yes, and I sit outside and I just people-watch. And that to me is relaxing. There's no pressure. Sometimes I take videos and I post it to my Instagram. So, there's not this huge – it’s not the focus on what I can't do. It's a focus of what I can do. That's the first 24 hours. I'll go back to the Tiny Shed, like I said, I'll watch something on Netflix or whatever. It's not a lot of restrictions.
But after that, once my brain starts relaxing a little bit, then I'll start to get into a place of maybe journaling out some things or reading. To me, that ushers me into a place of rest. And rest for me means that I don't have to be in charge. So, my life as a leader, as a COO, I also have a coaching and consulting practice so, I'm a business owner, I'm a single mom, I'm constantly in a place of being in charge. So, to go from relaxing, to me is, “Hey, do some of these really great and fun things that are available to you.” And then resting is, “And now you get to hand over the reins of leadership fully and let God lead you.” That to me is very refreshing. When I'm able to be refreshed, that's when I can refocus and that's what happens, that's what these retreats are for, for me.
[00:48:50] JR: I love that you said that it's a time not what you can't do, but what you can do. I use that exact language when talking about Sabbath. I’m writing about that for this next book Redeeming Your Time and the Sabbath for me and my family, “It's an island of get-to in a sea of have-to”, as Kevin DeYoung, once poetically put it. For you, these are these mini quarterly Sabbath retreats, which I love that rhythm. I think it's so, so, so wise and healthy.
Alright, Carla, you know which three questions are coming next. Which books do you recommend or gift most frequently to others?
[00:49:29] CH: Listen, you know it's yours.
[00:49:31] JR: Come on.
[00:49:32] CH: It is. It really is. I mean, it really is and there have been people that have tagged you on Instagram to prove it.
[00:49:37] JR: I know. I've seen it. Yeah.
[00:49:38] CH: I really do gifts or recommend Called to Create and Master of One the most to people. But if you are looking for other books for me to recommend –
[00:49:46] JR: I am.
[00:49:47] CH: Okay. So, I would say from a leadership perspective, Essentialism by Greg McKeown. Absolutely, yes, yes, yes, for sure. From a personal growth perspective, because we talk about being a grown up and maturity, I would say The Life Model by James Wilder. There are a few other authors that contributed to that. But The Life Model is really big and it talks a lot about fear bonds and love bonds. And so, a lot of us have not so great backgrounds that dictate a lot of the way that our relationships function in the world. So, The Life Model is a big one for me.
And then speaking of relationships, Keep Your Love On by Danny Silk is phenomenal. I know that The Love Languages is a big one that people recommend, but Keep Your Love On is so great, especially for couples. But it works with colleagues, it works with business partners, anything where you might be encountering conflict.
[00:50:39] JR: Interesting.
[00:50:40] CH: So that's a great one.
[00:50:40] JR: I've never heard of that. That's really good. By the way, I love Wilder. I love James Wilder. I've never read that title though. So, I got to check that one out, too. All right. Who would you most like to hear on the podcast?
[00:50:50] CH: Joanna Gaines, 100%.
[00:50:52] JR: Great answer. Alright, everyone tag Joanna Gaines –
[00:50:57] CH: Yes, please.
[00:50:58] JR: – right now on Instagram. Joanna is always welcome. Joanna and Chip who I wrote about in Master of One. Alright. So, I'm changing up the last question. So, I'm going to throw you a slight curveball, okay? Post Episode 100, we’re going to tweak this last question. I want you to go back through the last hour of this conversation and find one thing you want to highlight, or reiterate, and just make sure our listeners hear before we sign off.
[00:51:28] CH: I would say be faithful to your current assignment. Work with integrity and excellence. Lead well and leave well.
[00:51:39] JR: That's really good, I love it. Carla, I want to commend you for the exceptional work you do, leading your team and just serving them through the ministry of excellence. Thank you for your commitment to following the Call to Mastery and on a personal note, for your continued support and championing of my work and this message that the work that we all do in this world matters, because it's a means of glorifying God and serving others. Hey, where's the best place to connect with you? Instagram, LinkedIn, what is it?
[00:52:11] CH: You can find me on LinkedIn, Carla H. Hayden, or on Instagram. I have an Instagram account, @coffee_with_carla, where I am going to teach you how to be a grown up on that.
[00:52:23] JR: So, if you're not a grown up yet, and you're willing to admit it –
[00:52:26] CH: If you’re not a grown up yet.
[00:52:29] JR: Follow @coffee_with_carla. Carla, thanks for hanging out with us.
[00:52:32] CH: Thank you so much. It's been an honor.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:52:33] JR: Carla's so, so, so awesome. I'm so glad we were finally able to get her on the show. Hey, if you're enjoying the Call to Mastery, take 30 seconds right now and go leave a review of the podcast. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to Episode 101. I can't wait to produce 100 more of these things for you guys, but ultimately, for our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. See you guys next week.
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