Displaying Christ when you get fired and do work the world sees as vain
The biblical grounds for doing work some see as vain, how to display Jesus when you get fired, and how God uses even the curse to bless and sanctify us.
Links Mentioned:
[0:00:05.4] JR: Hey friend, welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast, I’m Jordan Raynor. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians, those of us who aren’t pastors or religious professionals but who work as politicians, furniture makers, and social workers? That’s the question we explore every week and today, I’m posing it to the one of my best friends in the entire world, Bethany Brown.
She’s a nurse practitioner and the owner of a med spa here in Tampa, Florida. Bethany and I recently talked about the Biblical grounds for doing work that many people see as pure vanity. We talked about how to display Jesus when you get fired, and we talked about how God can use even the curse to bless us and sanctify us. I think you guys are going to enjoy this conversation with my friend, Bethany Brown.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:01.1] JR: Bethany Brown, long-time listener, first-time caller, welcome.
[0:01:04.1] BB: Hello, hello. Thank you for having me.
[0:01:07.1] JR: Not just a long-time listener but also a long-time best friend of my bride and myself. I don't know if I want to ask this, this is probably going to get edited out. What’s something our listeners should know about Jordan Raynor in the real world?
[0:01:18.7] BB: Oh, my goodness.
[0:01:19.0] JR: You’ve experienced more of Jordan Raynor in the real world than –
[0:01:21.5] BB: I know. Well, first of all –
[0:01:23.0] JR: Don’t hike quit Jordan Raynor?
[0:01:24.1] BB: I’m pretty – yeah, right, no hiking. I wouldn’t invite you then, I just probably wouldn’t recommend that to be the way you meet people for the first time. No, I think I remember where we were sitting, when I said, “Jordan, you should do a podcast.” Like, I was listening to a ton of podcasts and consuming it.
[0:01:40.3] JR: I don’t remember this.
[0:01:41.6] BB: So much content at the time when I was driving to Lakeland every day.
[0:01:44.8] JR: Yeah.
[0:01:45.3] BB: And I remember saying, “I think you should do it.”
[0:01:47.5] JR: And I did not want to do it.
[0:01:49.5] BB: Yo, no, you did not.
[0:01:49.9] JR: Where were we?
[0:01:51.6] BB: It was in that plaza across from Sickles High School. It was where Yogurtology used to be. I don’t remember why we were there.
[0:01:59.0] JR: The froyo craze, yeah.
[0:02:00.2] BB: Yeah, yeah.
[0:02:00.3] JR: I don’t remember this at all.
[0:02:01.2] BB: I don’t think we were there but –
[0:02:01.3] JR: But I believe it.
[0:02:02.7] BB: Yeah, no. We were in a booth.
[0:02:03.8] JR: So we have you to thank for the Mere Christians Podcast.
[0:02:06.4] BB: Really, you do. So, you’re welcome, world.
[0:02:08.5] JR: Yeah, there you go. Hey, so you and I are a lot of like, much to our spouse's chagrin, we both love our work, right? We’re fully engaged in it. But you haven’t always felt permission to lean into your work to lean into you career. Can you tell our listeners kind of how that changed for you?
[0:02:29.1] BB: I think, when Clay and I, Clay is my husband, we got married and we got married, we were 23 and he had a career change. And I remember him and I kind of having a conversation, and I know where I was driving. I know where I was on the road when I just thought, “Oh, okay, well, I will be working and I will work in some capacity when we have kids. Okay Lord.” Praying for that peace that passes all understanding like, “I’m going to follow you and whatever that looks like, I know I can do that and be mom and be a hard worker, a good worker, and You will make that path clear.” And so, I dove in.
I was a nurse on the floor at the time and I just dove in, decided to be the best nurse I could be, and said “Yes” to some opportunities and really, never looked back. I got so much joy out of work, that was such a blessing for me that I realized, “Oh, I really, really enjoy this.”
[0:03:30.7] JR: Yeah, yeah, and that first big chunk of your career is really marked by this really rapid ascent, just success after success, bigger and bigger jobs at large hospitals. But eventually, you did make the decision to kind of pause that career progression in a way, so that Clay, your husband, my best friend, one of my best friends could focus on his career. That was not an easy decision for you. Talk about how you came to that decision.
[0:03:56.0] BB: Yeah. So, I was in hospital leadership and had taken a job in the senior living world, as a vice president, and we got pregnant with our third, third girl, we have three girls. And I just knew it in my gut that Clay needed to not carry as much as he did with the first two. With the first two, I mean, Clay had his own baby carrier and would take our kids to house showings and closing tables.
He’s in real estate. His mom and dad lived nearby, so we had their help as well. But I was definitely in a type of role that it was not as flexible for me. So we just knew with that third kid, I needed to change what I was doing in order to let him continue on this path that he was on. It was hard because I had to change what I was doing but at the same time, with that hard, there was a huge peace of mind that we were doing the right thing for our family.
But it was hard because I did not at the time consider myself a creative. I want the clear job description. Monday through Friday, give me my objectives. What are my KPIs, how am I reporting those out? To think outside the box and create something different that would work for our family – that was incredibly difficult for me.
[0:05:22.3] JR: Yeah.
[0:05:22.4] BB: Yeah, and you helped a lot. I know we have lots of conversations in that stage but –
[0:05:28.1] JR: But it’s such a good example of being a living sacrifice, sacrificing for your kids but also sacrificing for your spouse. I mean, did your people around you being like, “You’re crazy to step down from this VP role. What are you doing?” Like, did you hear those voices?
[0:05:45.0] BB: You know, not – no one said it to my face.
[0:05:47.2] JR: Yeah, right, exactly, right.
[0:05:48.8] BB: But I do feel like there was a little bit of, “Oh, all right. Well, you’re going to have some changes on your job description” or not job description, resume. “You’re going to, you’re changing again.” The people close to me knew it too, kind of knew what I was doing and why I was doing it and so I didn’t feel any pressure there but yeah, certainly, in the workplace.
At that same time, Molly was born in January 2020 and when I gave my notice, I let them know, “Hey, I will stay on and consult for you.” Because COVID had just hit and I was kind of the nurse over the HR of operations, of employees and helping. So, I stepped down and there was definitely some, “Oh, okay, now? You’re going to do that now?” But they were incredibly gracious and I stayed on, on good terms.
[0:06:40.7] JR: Yeah. So fast-forward a few years and you come to, I think, the most difficult situation you’ve ever faced professionally. Without using names, of course, I was hoping you’d share that story with our listeners and how you thought about applying God’s word to the situation but let’s just start with the story. What happened?
[0:07:00.5] BB: Sure. So I stayed in the consulting space, which was basically part-time work as an independent contractor for me. I wasn’t ever in the world. I’m going to make a big consulting firm. I wanted to help my connections in leadership lead with excellence. And whatever I could do to support them, whether policies, procedures, employee issues, let me be your right-hand person.
So I picked up some more consulting gigs and we had a friend who was in a company and they needed some kind of clinical operations, guidance. And so I stepped in, learned the world that they were in, and ended up consulting for them. And that turned into a more part-time role than consultant role, and my contract ended up not being updated but more responsibilities were added.
So I had direct reports, I had recruited a friend of mine, I really believed in what they were doing and I could see myself there long term but I think they needed somebody there full-time that could maybe travel more and do some more things than I could do at the time. So, my perspective is I laid it out. I requested a raise or requested a change in the role structure, trying to change some direct reports situations.
And my friend revealed to me that there were conversations going on about me without me, and I didn’t feel like that was appropriate. I had said, “You know, guys, I want to be here, I believe in what we’re doing, we’re going to look back when Bethany had young kids and remember, Oh, she was trying to work a couple of hours a week.” And that was at like 20, 25, sometimes 30 hours a week, but I definitely couldn’t get to 40 like I think that they really needed.
But at the end of the day, they ended up having this meeting without me, restructured everything, came in, and said, “Hey, we don’t have a job for you anymore” and they were legally allowed to do that. I was an independent contractor but it just felt really – it was just rejection, right? And I felt rejection like I have never, by the grace of God, fell in my whole life.
[0:09:18.7] JR: Yeah, because and that, I mean, you really had an experience professional rejection ever.
[0:09:22.4] BB: No, no, ever, Jordan, ever.
[0:09:25.4] JR: I remember hearing this story for the first time and I’m like, “What happened? There’s no way this happened to Bethany.” So, how did you deal with that, how did you process that after that?
[0:09:36.4] BB: Yeah. So I remember in that moment thinking – because they brought me to the HR lady’s office and – which I had been that lady, right? I have been the lady, taking your keys and taking your computer and I just remember thinking, “This is a misunderstanding. We’re not even having a conversation to discuss both sides.” I was just a little – I was just shocked but I also remember in that moment that you can display your faith more in how you leave a company than how you come into a company.
[0:10:08.7] JR: That’s so good.
[0:10:09.0] BB: And I knew like, “I’m going to be the most gracious person they’ve ever fired.” And I just remember walking to my car, calmly. I think I even left a key on my key ring on accident so I had to call them back and get – oh – and I’m just, “Be gracious, be gracious, display Jesus, display Jesus.” And after the fact, I called Clay and just then, all the emotions came out but, in that moment, I was not going to leave and throw a fit and make the rest of the workplace uncomfortable. I was just – it’s clear that this is not for me now.
[0:10:42.1] JR: And I’ll just speak from my perspective, this was not just a misunderstanding. This was a really wrongful termination, the way this went down.
[0:10:50.2] BB: Yeah, sure, yeah.
[0:10:50.6] JR: And I think, and I don’t want you to have to comment on that, right? But talk to the listener who is experiencing this or may experience this in the future. How can you be fired, how can you display Jesus practically in that process of being let go from a company? How should we as believers, as mere Christians, be doing that differently than the rest of the world? You mentioned graciousness, but be more specific here.
[0:11:14.1] BB: Yeah, I would say, humility and being humble and not thinking so highly of yourself to think that there might have been something that you could do better, right? And I could not – I could probably name a couple of things like maybe earlier months, earlier, “I should have been clearer on things that wouldn’t have gotten to this.” But I also think there is being honest with yourself too, and understanding if this is how they’re going to treat people, I really don’t want to be a part of an organization like this anyways.
[0:11:48.1] JR: What good have you seen come about from this bad circumstance?
[0:11:52.0] BB: Oh, my goodness.
[0:11:53.1] JR: In terms of your sanctification?
[0:11:54.5] BB: Oh yeah. I think so much more empathy for people who are struggling with – whether it’s job loss or a huge misunderstanding or feeling like their voice was not heard, or the feeling of, “People aren’t understanding what I’m saying.” Because that is a hard place to be, when you feel like no one even took the time to listen to your perspective, they just assumed, and that doesn’t feel good at all.
[0:12:22.5] JR: I just got done writing this devotional series on basically, the unexpected blessing that come about through cursed work, and one of them was empathy, right? It’s like when we experience thorns and thistles in our work and painful toil, it creates an empathy that you’re talking about, and can lead us to stepping in other people’s pain –
[0:12:44.2] BB: Yeah.
[0:12:44.5] JR: And be a blessing and a comfort to them which is a tremendous blessing. Hey, tell us about the work you’re doing today.
[0:12:51.1] BB: Yeah. So rewind, I’m a nurse practitioner clinically, and so when I – we had our first kid in 2015 and I just suffered with really horrible cystic hormonal acne, and I’ve never had acne in middle school or high school. So it just sort of wrecked me f as a professional walking in and feeling like, “Oh my God, my face looks like a teenage boy right now.”
So I decided to figure it out. I was studying and researching all things dermatology and aesthetics while I was still in clinical operations. And so when I left the job that we were just talking about, I decided, “Well, what do I want to do?” I don’t think stepping into a clinical management role at this point in life is going to work for a while. We have three young girls and I decided to shadow and follow anybody I knew in the skin space because I had just really gotten obsessed with all things rashes, all things skin, all things aesthetics.
So, I landed and did a couple of trainings, met this wonderful, my malpractice insurance guy who really pointed me in the right direction of some folks that are running a really great aesthetics company, and they are just a wonderful family. Clay and I decided to step into their world and we opened our own franchise of a med spa up here in Tampa. I’m the injector and I also own it but it’s been really, really enjoyable to help people in this world.
People aren’t coming to a med spa because they’re sick or because they have a problem like when I was in HR. It’s been really fun to be in this space where people come to you because they have a wedding coming up or they have a monumental event, like a reunion or something. So you get to step into this different type of clinical world, where you’re helping people feel better and have more confidence in the way they’re going to present at these really special events, and that’s been really, really fun, Jordan.
[0:14:55.5] JR: There is a lot of Christians who see this work as vain. Oh, non-Christians see this work as vain and I know you, I remember exactly where I was when we had this conversation. I was on the phone with you. We had a long conversation wrestling with that question before you chose to open this med spa. Like, what truths from God’s Word gave you freedom to lean into work that many people see as vain?
[0:15:19.9] BB: Yeah, sure. It’s very clear, all throughout scripture, God is looking at hearts, and we are to be modest. And that means, in how we present ourselves and how we’re feeling, our identity and our possessions, and things like that. So there’s very clear – it’s very clear. It’s a slippery slope and I would argue anyone working in a retail space or clothing space or highlights and hair salons, like it’s – there’s a wrestling that you never want your client to leave thinking that they are more worthy or better because of the services you’re giving them, right?
[0:15:57.6] JR: Amen.
[0:15:58.5] BB: We are in an outside aesthetic, it is an aesthetic space, but what we do see in scripture is that we have a Creator that loves to bring order to chaos and loves beauty and also, loves serving. So when you get to sit in the seat and someone’s coming because they have a reunion coming up and they want to look and feel their best and it’s about presenting their best self.
I mean, I looked at a client yesterday and I always say, “Listen, you’re asking me my opinion, I am not picking you apart, do not take any offense, we are just looking at this as if you were a piece of art, you are no more worthy or better when you walk out of this office.” And she looks at me and she goes, “Bethany, I know you, that’s why I’m coming to you and I love you, but fix this part” right?
But I try really hard to bring that spirit in with me as we are addressing something that is not your heart, not your worth, but it can be really enjoyable to watch somebody tear up after they look and see where they’ve been and what their after photos are showing, because they’re going to that job interview with more confidence or they’re stepping into those wedding photos, feeling and looking their best.
And I’m choosing to have a weight loss lifestyle coaching side of my business too because that’s so important to me, and I think that keeps me grounded with the lifestyle, as you need to sleep and eat well. Otherwise, if you are living a certain way, there’s nothing I can do to your face that’s going to help you with certain things.
[0:17:40.2] JR: Yeah.
[0:17:40.6] BB: So I try to be full-person approach when I’m talking about certain things.
[0:17:45.3] JR: Yeah, it’s good. Yeah, I think on the one hand we forget that God creates for the pure joy of it and for the pure beauty of it. Not everything has to have utilitarian function. But on the other side of the coin, there’s a lot that’s broken in the med spa space. There’s a lot that’s evil in the marketing of these products and the marketing of these services, which is why we need believers in the space like this.
[0:18:12.7] BB: That’s right, that’s right.
[0:18:13.6] JR: To think redemptively and differently about this space. So, you talked about the conversations you have with patients, I mean, I think that’s a really good example. It’s like, “Hey, I want you to know that contrary to what other med spas might tell you, the moment you walk out of this place, you are no more beautiful or worthy or loved than when you came inside of it.”
[0:18:34.5] BB: Yes, yes.
[0:18:35.5] JR: That’s the seed that can lead to the gospel with those people. In what other ways are you – do you think you’re thinking differently about this type of business?
[0:18:42.7] BB: Yeah. So –
[0:18:43.9] JR: Because of your apprenticeship to Christ?
[0:18:45.5] BB: Yeah. So, I really had a lot of peace in stepping into this space because of how much I love my hairdresser, and she’s a believer. Every time I go to her, I feel like I have left church, that fellowship of believers. I feel like I get to leave there feeling just that bond of a sister in Christ. So in this space, you get way more relationships with the people you see regularly than you do or should if you work on a hospital floor.
Hospital work is frontline missions, every single day, there’s a lot that you can tie to gospel work there but you’re not really building relationships with those patients. You’re helping them at a critical point and then they’re leaving. What I love about this space is, I’m seeing you again in three months and we’re talking about what you told me before, and when you’re a nurse, you already get everybody’s – people overshare to me regularly, right?
[0:19:43.4] JR: Yeah, I bet, yeah.
[0:19:45.0] BB: Which I love. I love that. But you get to know people in a different way. And then to know that you’re going to see them again – there’s a high integrity with words that you use or a high calling to have integrity and authenticity in the words that you’re using because you’re going to see them again, and they’re going to talk about you and their family or friends are going to hear things that you’ve said or what you’ve done.
I just find, there’s a lot more weight on the bar when you have to be accountable to that, and I find that I’m really enjoying serving women and some men in that way that they’re hopefully, getting a taste of that regularly from me, that I want them to feel the love of the gospel in every conversation and visit, even if we’re not talking specifically about the Lord, just in how we’re talking about the redemptive work of lifestyle change and the transformation that they’re seeing and how they’re feeling, and how that’s translating into other areas of their life. I’m enjoying that part of it a lot.
[0:20:51.4] JR: That’s good, I love that. So I can’t remember if we’ve talked about this. William Wilberforce’s, List of Launchers. This is a list of things that – a list that is basically discussion topics that he would have for people that he saw on a regular basis, to take those conversations from the surface to the serious to the spiritual.
So it’s like, “Oh, the last time I saw this person, we talked about this, and the next time I see them, I want to talk about this to try to be intentional about talking about stuff beyond surface level, how’s the weather” whatever. Are you intentional like that in conversations or is it more natural that you’re just trying to be the aroma of Christ to your patients?
[0:21:30.1] BB: Yeah. I was thinking about this the other day because so far, it has flown very organically for me and I think that’s because I’m – I’ve been in this world for a year and a half now. My own personal med spa really just opened. Since April, I’ve started seeing patients on my own.
So I feel like it’s new enough that we’re still kind of diving in? Now, there’s some, after a couple of visits, “How are your kids, do they like that camp?” or whatever. But I love that approach but I do find that it’s been very organic for me thus far.
[0:22:06.3] JR: Yeah, yeah, this is great. Hey, one final thing before we get to our three final questions, before the final. We both have three daughters who love hanging out together. What are you hoping that your girls, my girls will know about work before they leave our homes in whatever –
[0:22:22.6] BB: Yeah, this is the one question, when I read it, I was like, “Oh gosh, I’m going to cry about this.” I want my girls to not have the fear that if they work, then they can’t X, right? Because I find because I chose an area of work that I love so much, I’m nursing, health, I have been able to make that move around the main focus of my life – my walk with the Lord, the role I have in my family.
I just want them to know that there is so much joy that they can get from a vocation and that can merge into the main areas of their life, and I don’t want them to feel like it’s a drag. I want them to see how much mom really enjoys what I do but that they see that that ends at a certain time and then mom is you know, mom.
[0:23:19.0] JR: Yeah. Yeah, you want them to see options.
[0:23:21.2] BB: Yeah.
[0:23:21.5] JR: And freedom. I mean, that’s what I want. I mean, my wife, as you know, Kara currently does not work outside the home but she works insanely hard inside the home, and that is just as much a vocation as the work that you and I are doing outside the home, and I’m super grateful for the exceptional work that Kara does in her current role. She is a hundred times more gracious and loving and patient person than I am. And as you know of Kara – What? Go ahead.
[0:23:49.6] BB: No, I was going to say because of what you do, I look at her, she’s very thoughtful and intentional about just the layout of the week
[0:24:01.5] JR: Yeah.
[0:24:01.8] BB: I call her, “What are you doing for this specific? Oh, that’s a great idea” whatever it is, devotionals for the kids or activities. And she operates in such a way, it is very systematic so that you can do what you’re doing. But I think you both are working for this mission that you are on and yeah, she’s exceptional.
[0:24:25.3] JR: She really is.
[0:24:26.2] BB: Yeah, yeah.
[0:24:26.8] JR: And people ask me all the time why Kara hasn’t done the podcast - because I love my wife too much and she doesn’t want to come on this podcast. But if Kara didn’t do her work, there’s no way I can do my work, and so I want my kids to say, “Hey, that’s an option.” You can stay and work full-time inside the home raising kids and that is a God-ordained calling.
[0:24:46.3] BB: Yes, a hundred percent.
[0:24:47.7] JR: But I also want my kids to see you and the other women that we are close friends with, Christy Adams, Kelly Stewart who both have been on the podcast working inside and outside the home. I want them to see options, I want them to see freedom, I want them to see how all good work can glorify God and be a means through which He delivers every good and perfect gift, as James says in James one, amen?
[0:25:12.9] BB: Yes, amen. Love it.
[0:25:15.1] JR: Hey, three questions before we wrap up. Number one, which books are you recommending or gift? I know, this is a tough one for you.
[0:25:20.8] BB: Man, this is, I know. I probably, I put them in categories when I first made my list of like, “Oh gosh, this is way too much.” So I think in the space of work, Timothy Keller’s, Every Good Endeavor, is the book that transformed my thinking. I read it when I was talking about, Clay and I weren’t having kids right away. I was going to go and lean into work and I leaned into grad school and that book is exceptional.
Then there is another kind of less known, unless you’re Jordan, “How Then Should We Work?” by Hugh Whelchel and his organization. I found a lot of peace in that read. And then not faith-based but I really, really enjoyed when I read it, Lean In, by Sheryl Sandberg. Just as a woman and just sort of how we self-sabotage ourselves sometimes, I think that it was really good when I read it.
[0:26:18.2] JR: Yeah.
[0:26:18.7] BB: I listen to it every January.
[0:26:21.1] JR: Do you really?
[0:26:21.9] BB: It’s an easy listen and she’s funny and it’s an audiobook and it’s her reading it. So I find it super enjoyable but every January, I listen to it. But then if you’re in healthcare, If Disney Ran Your Hospital is one of my favorites.
[0:26:39.5] JR: It’s probably the one I’ve heard you talk about the most of those.
[0:26:41.4] BB: I know and I went to – I mean, I could Google it. I just didn’t, but I’ve loaned it somebody, funny enough. So I can’t say the author at this moment.
[0:26:50.1] JR: Fred Lee.
[0:26:50.8] BB: Fred, oh, thank you, yes, and then Lee Cockerell, also kind of in the Disney space, Creating Magic. He was in operations at Disney for quite a while and just talks through how they created the magic, and I’ve always loved that idea when I was working in the hospital that patient satisfaction is so important in the hospital work these days, and how can we create that?
And I find that space to be so gospel-focused because when I was in trauma ICU, you could just say bedside manner doesn’t matter because I’m just I’m saving lives. But when you are gospel-focused, you are paying attention to the hearts and the tears and the faces of the people that are in that room, and you want to make sure that their experience right now is the best that it can be.
It is never going to be as good as a day at Disney, but how are you making them feel right this second? I feel like those Disney-focused books are really good for healthcare providers to read.
[0:27:52.9] JR: It’s good, it’s good.
[0:27:53.9] BB: Yeah and then gospel, one more, I’m so sorry.
[0:27:56.6] JR: Yeah, please, no.
[0:27:57.4] BB: The Prodigal God is a short easy read to kind of hand off to somebody if they’re kind of asking some questions.
[0:28:04.7] JR: Yeah, it’s probably the best entry to Tim as well.
[0:28:08.5] BB: But I give it a lot, I give it away a lot.
[0:28:10.4] JR: That’s a really good answer. We love talking about books, Clay and Kara hate it when we talk about books.
[0:28:15.5] BB: Oh, I know it’s so funny. I know.
[0:28:16.7] JR: So if they listen to this episode, which let’s face it, they won’t.
[0:28:19.0] BB: They’re not listening anyways.
[0:28:20.8] JR: No, no, no, they have tuned out by now. Hey, do you want to hear on this podcast?
[0:28:25.9] BB: I really want to hear Emily, my hairstylist. I think that –
[0:28:30.1] JR: Oh, that’s awesome.
[0:28:31.5] BB: Yeah. Yeah, she and her husband are a part of a startup church and they’re helping run youth group and she has been doing hair in the Tampa Bay area for a long time, and she loves the Lord and I just love her so much.
[0:28:43.5] JR: That’s awesome.
[0:28:44.3] BB: I think she’d be great.
[0:28:45.5] JR: I love that answer. All right, what’s one thing from our conversation you want to reiterate before we sign off?
[0:28:50.3] BB: Yeah, I think one of the things that helps me the most, and I feel like I got the most from counseling is, a lot of times, we try to put ourselves in these buckets – I am worker X. I’m a nurse, some nurse practitioner.Bbut when you feel the stress, it’s usually because it’s, “Oh, now, this is impacting mom life” and, “Oh, now, this is, I’m a bad parent because I am spending too much time in this space.”
And I think for those of us that are probably, most of your listeners, we are enneagram type three or perfectionist type one or we are very hard on ourselves. And I think when we are followers of Christ, that is who we are first and when that is the bucket, we place ourselves in, there is much more fluidity where we’re flowing in and out of these other roles. Because those are things that we do and those are spheres of influence we have. But as that follower of Christ, that is what is dictating in how we’re handling those other roles.
[0:29:46.8] JR: That’s good. That’s really good. Bethany, want to commend you, my friend, for the exceptional work you’ve done throughout your career for the glory of God and the good of others. I have seen firsthand, how you have relied on the Lord in His good and perfect word, to help you in some really practical situations in the workplace. I’m grateful that you do that. I’m grateful for you sharing some of that wisdom that you’ve gleaned with our listeners, thanks for having out with us today.
[0:30:14.5] BB: Well, thank you. Thank you for being such a good friend to my husband and to me and our little family. We’re such big Jordan Raynor fans, and we appreciate you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:30:23.9] JR: Hey, who do you want to hear on the Mere Christians Podcast? I want to know. Contact me at jordanraynor.com/contact. Hey, thank you, guys, for tuning in this week. I’ll see you next time.
[END]