The bird poop that founded a company
Jordan Raynor sits down with Andrew Shearer, Founder of Farmshelf, to talk about how a bird pooping on his notebook at the site of Jesus’s tomb pushed Andrew to found his company, what “gleaning” can look like in our modern society, and what “deep work” can look like for night owls.
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[00:00:05] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I host a conversation with a Christian who is pursuing world-class mastery of their craft. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits, and how the Gospel of Jesus Christ influences their work.
Today's guest is Andrew Shearer. He's the founder and CEO of Farmshelf, a fascinating venture that builds smart indoor farming appliances that enable anyone to grow food where they live, work and eat. The company's got some serious traction. Before the company, Andrew spent time at Twitter and Pinterest. So, Andrew and I sat down recently, we talked about how a bird pooping on his notebook at the site of Jesus' tomb. Yes, you heard that correctly, is what pushed Andrew to found his incredible company. We talked about what this Old Testament idea of gleaning can look like in our modern context, and how night owls can fight for deep work. I think you guys are going to love this episode with my new friend, Andrew Shearer.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:01:30] JR: Hey, Andrew, thanks for being here.
[00:01:32] AS: Thanks, Jordan for having me.
[00:01:35] JR: Real softball question to start. What's Farmshelf?
[00:01:37] AS: Farmshelf. Our mission is to enable everyone to grow food where they live, work and eat. The way we do this is with bookshelf sized indoor farms that automate the hardest part, and provide the user with just great tasting food year round, in a way that's also enjoyable to grow.
[00:01:53] JR: So, here's the deal. I don't think I could grow lettuce if I tried. I'm assuming lettuce is easy to grow, hence the analogy. Could I use this product? How would this work inside my home if I had a Farmshelf here?
[00:02:09] AS: Yeah, so a Farmshelf, the economists call this an espresso for lettuce, because it really is just about that easy. The system shows up, you plug it into the wall. And we send you all the things that you need, plant pods that have the nutrients, the seed, everything right there, the system connects to the internet, kind of tells you where to place the plant pods, and then we remotely monitor it and provide the plant everything it needs. And then tell you when it's time once a week to add water to a central tank and when it's time to harvest.
[00:02:42] JR: So, that's all I do? I pour water in and I harvest.
[00:02:45] AS: Yeah. And it's this really fun process too, where you get to kind of taste these flavors when they're so fresh, where they haven't been into a bleach bath or through a refrigeration supply chain. So, that you're getting these flavors that almost seem just not real because there's just so much flavor when we eat fresh produce. Some of us have experienced that from our parents or our grandparents backyards where they maybe grew a little bit of food in the summer at peak season. But with kind of how we're able to provide these plants the ideal circumstances to grow, we can make that happen year round.
[00:03:21] JR: So, we're going to see blind taste test videos from Farmshelf of produce grown in the Farmshelf and not? Are we going to see those soon?
[00:03:28] AS: Absolutely. Actually, when we first installed, our first ever installation was in 2017 with the co-founder of this restaurant called Noma. His name is Claus Meyer, he had a restaurant in Grand Central Station. We put my business card on the back so that if anyone at the restaurant ever had questions or there were any issues, “This is our first product in the market, our alpha unit, call me. We’ll be there in 30 minutes to an hour, regardless of time of day.” But in a few days, we get a phone call and it's the executive chef being like, “I don't get it.” I'm like, “What? What's wrong?” He's like, “How does this taste so good? Where's all this flavor coming from? What did you spray on it?” And we're like, “Oh, nothing. That's just what it should taste like.”
So, it's almost like we've lost touch with real fresh food and produce to the point where even chefs are just blown away by the flavor, regardless of whether it's a side by side taste test.
[00:04:19] JR: Alright, so I love founding stories, and we'll come back to what was the impetus for this in a minute, but first, let's go to that first customer, first installation, probably not even paying for this. 2017 to get this thing installed, tell us more about that. What did you guys learn? How did you scale from there? Take us from 2017 until now.
[00:04:39] AS: Yeah, originally we thought we would first build a small consumer system. But then quickly looking at, did we want to build something that was like a hobbyist educational item, kind of like a Gameboy? Or did we want to build a personal computer such as a desktop computer that could actually make an impact in the quality and the volume and the amount of food being produced? So, it made sense, similar to how Keurig started in office buildings and hotels, how camera companies started with DSLR cameras and professional cameras before then evolved into a mass consumer product for us to start with a B2B customer, a restaurant, a corporate cafeteria.
[00:05:21] JR: But now you're moving, you guys are moving direct to home, right? Very soon, you will be able to buy this for your house.
[00:05:26] AS: Yes. So, it’s similar to the way that Keurig started in kind of B2B settings, and you saw Vitamix at a Jamba Juice before you ever saw one in your home. It's really taking that technology and looking at who our customer is. Our customer is someone who takes food and turns it into its final product, a meal, whether that's a chef in a restaurant or a corporate cafeteria or at home, and making sure that both people have the best possible produce at an affordable price.
So, to go back to that kind of that first customer, it was being a part of a startup accelerator here in New York called Urban X and getting introduced to this guy, Claus Meyer. We told him about our vision and what we were doing, and he's like, “Okay, let's do it.” And we're like, “Okay, what do you mean?” He's like, “Let's put this in Grand Central Station at Great Northern Food Hall.” Like one of the busiest locations for foot traffic in the US. It was just like, “Okay.” We didn't even actually pitch him. He just like got it.
And then getting to install into Grand Central, which is a historically protected landmark. This prototype was quite the ordeal. Just all the approvals, their special granite plastics or granite safe plastics that we had to use to touch the floor. it was just a – there were bomb sniffing dogs that had to inspect the Farmshelf before they could go in, and we installed into Grand Central Station at two in the morning between 2 and 5 AM, when it's completely shut down. So, here we are walking this indoor farm through the middle of this historic terminal and it was just like this, “I can't believe this is happening” moment. And then to get to turn them on and see people like, just gravitate towards that, I literally saw a three-year-old boy walk away from his parents, walk up to the side of this Farmshelf and just give it a hug. We're searching for that connection. And it was just so much fun to get that passion that chefs have for great ingredients, and giving them a way to not only have even better access to them, but also to share them with their patrons and not just tell that story, but show it.
[00:07:26] JR: Give us an idea of the scale of the venture and traction so far. You guys have been primarily focused B2B. You’re moving B2C. So, that we can get these in our houses. But what does the scale look like so far?
[00:07:39] AS: Yeah, so we started back in 2017, built a little bit under 10 units. Then 2018, did 25. And then over 2019, into 2021, did over 200 units of kind of our current product. And we were scaling really quick when COVID hit and so COVID unfortunately, had to slow down. But through that time, we've raised a little bit over $10 million, developed custom hardware that really provides the plants what they need, in a way that's not only beautiful, but also cost effective. Now, we're getting ready to kind of scale up manufacturing over these next few months to launch a product that is for both B2B customers, but also for the home, and looking to ship thousands of units starting next year.
[00:08:26] JR: How big is this unit? If I bought one of these for my house, how big is it?
[00:08:30] AS: So, it is 40 inches wide, 20 inches deep and 5’9” tall. It doesn't need to be connected to water, but you can connect it to water to decrease the amount of times that you have to fill it with water, and have it done automatically. But it really is designed in a way that adds value from not just a nutritional level to your living environment, but from an aesthetic value. Something that's beautiful that you want to have in your home and showcase.
[00:08:55] JR: It is beautiful. It's a gorgeous product. I want to come back to it in a minute. But first, before you were doing this, you were doing sales and BD work at Twitter and Pinterest, right?
[00:09:06] AS: Yes. So, a little bit about my professional background and how I got here is, growing up, did a lot of nonprofit work, thanks to some awesome parents that got me involved in that and in the space of kids with cancer and supporting those families. And then also, in microfinance and agriculture in Central America, with a group called AGRIS, which is an incredible organization that looks to end the generational cycle of poverty in Central America through land ownership, agricultural education and microfinance.
Kind of getting to doing some of this work with my parents in a volunteer capacity, just having this passion to see what it would look like to use business in a way that not just, say, made money and then donated afterwards or gave a better price to certain groups in a way that was more ethical. But how do you actually build a business and a business model that by the product and the model in and of itself drives positive impact and scales in a more capitally and virally efficient way? So, for us that's looking at kind of the cost of our food and how do we make that in a way where we're really distributing the ability for anyone to grow food, as we make the amount that a single system can grow more and more and decrease the cost of ownership.
So, I went to Pepperdine, incredible university, where I just had some amazing mentors. Studied abroad in East Africa, nongovernmental aid and Christianity and culture and just learned so much about what it looks like to really serve others in a way that isn't, you know, sometimes when we try to help others, we can often hurt them, instead of really empowering them where they're at. So, from there, a mentor had also told me if the numbers don't add up, the dream doesn't matter which is a little cynical but there's parts of truth to it. So, I studied finance, went into banking, and then did banking for a little while at Wells Fargo, and then ad sales and business intelligence at Twitter, and Pinterest, really looking at how to use data to enable various brands and startups to tell their story and to find their customers.
[00:11:11] JR: And when did you decide, when did you really catch this vision for Farmshelf and decide to go all in on this?
[00:11:18] AS: So, I was working at Pinterest, and I had been collecting Pinterest boards on how to grow my own food. I’d always seen hydroponics and just thought it was fascinating. I'd also had a job in college where I did cherry exporting to Japan during the summer, exporting millions of dollars’ worth of cherries for this company. And just seeing kind of how crazy and in some ways broken our food system is through that. So, I did kind of like obsessing over this idea, I bought a few systems that were on the market to try and grow my own food in my, at the time, San Francisco apartment. It wasn't that easy, the food that came out didn't taste that great. I just kind of started obsessing over the idea.
And then when I started looking around to kind of what was necessary and some additional technology that was coming from different spaces, the appliance industry, the IoT medical device industry, and things that we were using at Pinterest and Twitter, from a machine learning and computer vision perspective, I just saw an interesting opportunity to steal technology from these other segments and kind of reassemble it to truly enable a way of growing food that would otherwise be not possible, and do it in a way that can truly scale. Because I think scale is so important. The process of getting from the idea to actually making the leap was a little different. And it has some comical bumps along the way, but yeah.
[00:12:39] JR: That's awesome. I love it. So, I read this line in your bio that I loved: “Andrew’s personal mission is to feed and love the world well through business.” I'm really curious in what ways your faith shape that personal mission statement?
[00:12:58] AS: I think my faith is what created that personal mission statement and it's like, business is really and capitalism can be a tool to scale and go after some of our ventures in loving people in a way that otherwise might not be possible. While I think that Farmshelf will someday be enabling millions of people around the world to grow food at 50% the price and almost double the nutritional value of what they could go buy the store, making it available to a whole new population in terms of quality of food. It's not just about the arrival, it's about the journey and the process from A to B, and how you treat your coworkers, deal with the highs and the lows and love on your customers, even when legally you might not have to do something, but it's the right thing to do.
[00:13:46] JR: I want to go a layer deeper here because we met because we're at the same event. You were pitching at the Praxis Redemptive Imagination Summit. We talked a lot at that conference about going beyond, thinking more redemptively about the operations of our ventures. So, what your company does is so obviously redemptive in a part of God's restorative work in the world. Go a layer deeper, how are the operations of the company? How's the journey? How you’re treating your team, your employees different, do you think, distinctive, more redemptive, because you're a follower of Christ?
[00:14:21] AS: Yeah, starting with coworkers. I think it's transparency, and trust and really showing kind of what's going on in the business and being open and transparent about that, not just about the good, but the tough circumstances. The areas where you're doing well as leader are also the areas where you're working on things or making mistakes and growing. I think that that's such a key aspect of kind of what it looks like to hold your ego well and really lead it in a way that in turn can showcase a better way to kind of hold these tough situations.
And then the aspects in which we grant equity into the company and look to enable and empower people in their careers, actively loving them, not just thinking what can I get from this, but how can I make sure that I'm really not just loving this individual and investing in them from a selfish motivation that this makes Farmshelf successful, but also like what does this person want outside of Farmshelf? What's going on in their life beyond that? And really sitting and meditating on those things and stepping up like – I kind of talk about Farmshelf sometimes as a family meets a football team. It's like stepping up and really being there and being present for people when they're going through tough things and actively loving on them in ways that I think we often, in kind of the general cultural perspective, have lost sight of.
[00:15:46] JR: Yeah, it's this difference between, Dave Blanchard and I just sat down and had a conversation about this, it's this difference between being ethical, being redemptive and truly seeking to bless people, not just treat them well, not just treat them ethically. It's this intentionality, this idea of being proactive and looking for ways to bless the people around you. Is that what you're saying, Andrew?
[00:16:10] AS: Yeah, for example, if you, say, provide some great jobs but don't really share kind of the success of the company, as it kind of grows, with others and what I think would be a more aggressive way that we're trying to do, imagine someday this thing is a multibillion dollar company and goes public, and I never have to work another day in my life, but everyone else might get to go take a few months off and then find another job or keep working at the company. But no, you should be able to share that success and enable their dreams as well, from a financial perspective. And that, even when we talk about, I think a lot of the areas where we focus on whatever a redemptive business model looks like, our business looks like, is our business model.
At the end of the day, our vision as we scale and kind of continue to drive value, bringing that cost of goods down, increasing yield, it's reallocating the capital that we're spending on our food and making it so that it's more human centric, both in the quality that we get and then the jobs and people that it provides access to. Stealing margin and jobs from food waste and plastic packaging, and inefficient kind of pointless middlemen and logistics, and really reallocating that so that no longer is the farm that you're getting your produce from a large corporate facility on the other side of the country that's barely providing for jobs as is. But it's really someone in your neighborhood who's not only providing food for themselves, but for their community, with better quality product and a lower price point, in a way that also sets up an opportunity to bring people together around that food in the way that we grow it, sell it and commune around it.
[00:17:52] JR: Yeah, that's beautiful. So, in prepping for this conversation, I was like, “All right, talking to a guy building these indoor gardens.” The most obvious question in the world comes from Genesis 2. God planted a garden. God instructed Adam and Eve to garden, right? What are the implications of that truth for you, personally, and how you think about Farmshelf?
[00:18:17] AS: Yeah, there's a part of Leviticus that talks about leaving the edge of your field unharvested for the poor and the wandering.
[00:18:23] JR: Yeah, gleaning.
[00:18:24] AS: Yeah. And that is a segment, a piece of Scripture, I think about frequently, and just like, what is the edge of our field? And how are we really thinking about that? How are we enabling our customers even to think about that, and the way that they share their abundance as we scale. So, that does come to mind a lot.
And then there's just something about food that is so powerful. The growing of it, I mean, yes, it was an agrarian society that the Bible really references throughout Scripture, versus today, where only 3% of people I think, are involved in food production, which is crazy. So, it was a different context that way, but also, there's this aspect of something with growing something that provides sustenance and the work and the enjoyment of that, that goes into it. Getting to make that accessible to more people and kind of those small joys is something I do think about.
[00:19:16] JR: Yes, seeing Genesis 2:8 tells us God planted this garden. It gives dignity to work, to the material world. It says that working with our hands is good, and not just the overtly spiritual things we do at work. Tending this earth, gardening this earth is good. I love that you pointed at gleaning, this command that you see all throughout the Old Testament, certainly in Leviticus. And the idea here, to contextualize this for our listeners, was the Lord commanded his people to not harvest all the crops of the fields, to leave some of the fields unharvested so that the poor can come alongside on the margins and also eat. So, what does that look like in our modern context for you? You mentioned your customers, like what does gleaning look like for Farmshelf?
[00:20:04] AS: Yeah, it's interesting in that we’ve had to look at this and talk about starting with a more luxury product that's enabling, really at the beginning, more of the storytelling and the high quality ingredients for a certain type of customer. But that, the way those customers are really enabling and giving back, whether they know it or not, is they are helping the technology and the efficiencies, be developed that can make this a system that is something that is then available to people in food deserts and in countries around the world as we scale manufacturing and improve the technology, because there is a certain aspect to which, for ethical and even cost reasons, it doesn't make sense to experiment on populations who might have a better near term solution, or stopgap, versus the long term vision that we have, that we think will mean we can provide a product to them. That really does drive that impact.
I talk about, our mission is explicitly not to grow leafy greens for rich people. If we end up where like you only see Farmshelf, or only know about it, because you're like into Michelin star dining or something like that, and no one else below that tier knows about Farmshelf, even if we're a billion dollar company, that's not success. The founding story of even selecting Farmshelf as kind of the idea that I went for does have some interesting garden, and I literally decided to go after Farmshelf while in Jerusalem, and it’s kind of a crazy story.
[00:21:35] JR: Yeah, please tell us.
[00:21:38] AS: So, was at Pinterest and had been kind of having an inkling to go after one of two ideas, kind of this Farmshelf idea, or this advertising tools idea based off something that I built at Twitter. So, left Pinterest and went on a two-week trip to Jordan and Israel. I had a friend who was teaching English in Jordan, and so we tour around and we're in Jerusalem and we go to the garden of the tomb, it's run by the UK church, I believe, it's where Protestants say the location is, Catholics say it’s somewhere else. But it's where Jesus died on the cross, and then was buried in the tomb and defeated death. And we go through this garden and have this kind of this time to sit, reflect, pray. And then afterwards, we're sitting in the garden still just maybe 150 feet away from the tomb. I'm sitting there with my buddy Gifford. And I go, “Gifford, I don't think I'm supposed to go after this advertising idea. I think I'm supposed to go after this farming idea.”
Sometimes like, God just wants to be like, “Hey, here's a clear sign that’s also a little bit ridiculous and crazy.” And then this bird in the tree above me, literally pooped onto the notebook with the advertising idea, literally pooped onto the notebook with that idea. And I'm like, “Okay, well, I guess I'm supposed to go after this farming idea.” And there's been so many times where it's been prayers of like, “Hey, God, lik, if this is what you want and this is the thing that you want me to go after, like, I need some help. But yeah, I'll keep going after but here's what I need.” And then even one time later down the road, when Farmshelf hit kind of a rough patch, drafting an email to shut down the company, and being about halfway through it in our office at 7:30 at night, the lights are off, and I'm just at my computer. And all of a sudden, as I'm halfway through this email, someone physically knocks on the door. This is the only time anyone has knocked on the door of our office ever, in this co-working space, and asked if they can invest. And I'm just like, “Wow. Okay.”
We just had such amazing favor and just really giving up to the Lord and these things that we're going after. And the ways that we really want to build the company in a way that is not just the way in which the company is built, the employees are treated, enabled, but in the way that we really strive after building a product that brings people together around food. At the end of the day, just imagine if you have this widget, forget what it looks like. It could not be like – Farmshelf looks beautiful, that's great. But just this widget that outputs the best tasting most nutritious food, but you need someone to operate it because there's still like little things, like harvesting and putting the new pods in. So, if you can take this widget and all of a sudden, instead of having to spend all this money on logistics, you're getting a head of lettuce, say, out of your garage, that's 50 cents to grow, that you can then sell for 75 cents and it's still way below the price of what the produce that's on the last part of its life at the grocery store is with double the nutrients. The ways that you can enable jobs and bring people together around that food where you grew tomatoes, I grew basil, Farmshelf recommends we get together and make a Caprese salad. Just unique opportunities to really use food to build not just abundance and wealth but wealth that we're proud of that we are a part of creating, that we also get to share with others and come together around the thing that we've always come together around, which is often food.
[00:25:09] JR: Two things I want to point out here that I love. One, going back to this idea of gleaning. I love how practical this is in a modern context. You're selling this to the wealthy to start, that’s your beachhead market in a very intentional way, so that you can fund R&D to serve the poor, serve the masses, right? I love this and how you're thinking about it.
Number two, going back to the garden, going back to the tomb in Jerusalem, you don't know this, but I just got done recording Episode 100 of this podcast, which will have been released on June 23 and we flipped the mic. I had one of my producers on the show interview me for Episode 100 and I talked about the garden in Genesis 1 and 2 and the Garden of the Tomb and how I think the writers of Scripture, ultimately God Himself, is doing something very intentional here, right? In Genesis two, God put Adam and Eve to work in the garden and it was only then that he was able to say, “My creation is very good”, after he created mankind and said, “Go create in my image.”
Same things happening after the resurrection, right? It's no mistake that Jesus was buried in a garden. It's no mistake that he was mistaken as the gardener by Mary. Right, he’s saying, “Hey, I've inaugurated this new world, go work and restore creation, until I bring heaven to earth ultimately.” And that's what you guys are doing. You’re a small part of that puzzle, of restoring and redeeming creation. Andrew, I love it so, so much. You mentioned the design of the product. It's beautiful. Guys go to Farmshelf. Wait, is it farmshelf.com, right now, Andrew?
[00:26:54] AS: Yup.
[00:26:55] JR: Go look at the product, it’s gorgeous. I'm a big believer that great design is the most efficient way to communicate a dedication to excellence, right? Just instantly on a website and in a half a second, you know, these people are serious about doing great work. I'm curious if you see a connection between your faith and your commitment to excellence? Is there a tie there for you?
[00:27:18] AS: Yeah, it's one of those things where I'm sure there is, it's just so tough to really – I’m a pretty nonlinear thinker towards linear goals. I don't know if that makes sense.
[00:27:28] JR: Yeah, it does.
[00:27:29] AS: But just seeing these things that may seem disconnected, but really are so much ingrained in each other. So, I think there's just this desire to really provide value and enjoy, and kind of this vision that's been put on my heart of what that can look like. In that, we want the technology to get out of the way. We want the beauty of nature, that God given nature and beauty and sustenance to really shine through. So, in some ways, yes. But I think it's also just this aspect of getting to create a product that can truly drive joy and an impact in a way that just seems like a dream and so lucky you to get to work on. It's awesome. I probably don't fully understand what that potential impact, or what the right way to bring this product together is. I just get to be the steward of like, “Hey, here are the things I think, and let's put them together and see how people experiment with them and use them, and does someone have an even bigger and wilder idea to take this technology, to take this product, and empower people in even more amazing ways?”
I remember talking to an entrepreneur about using the data from your life to actually pay for your home. It was this crazy concept he had when he was designing these kind of pre-built modular homes. It just made me start thinking about, is there a world in which providing a house or a structure in a country that's in a more developing economy stage, where the roof of the building pays for the building by growing food for that family, but also for others in the community. How can we really make these Lego blocks and these aspects available to others and let them, with their creativity, go and create things that I would never dream of.
[00:29:10] JR: Yeah, I love it. You're proving your chops clearly as a founder, because you're scaling really quickly. I'm curious, what do you think is the delta between good and great founders?
[00:29:22] AS: That’s tough, because people's definition of great is often so different.
[00:29:29] JR: Effective.
[00:29:31] AS: Even that, is a great founder someone that drives financial return for the investors, but ekes out all the value for themselves and out of their customers in ways that derive a lot of others of value that could have easily been shared.
[00:29:46] JR: Alright, so let me ask you this. How do you define great? What does it look like for you to be great in this venture as the CEO of Farmshelf?
[00:29:53] AS: The closest I've been able to come to it is a poem called If by Rudyard Kipling. Kipling wrote some interesting things that I don't agree with about like colonialism. So, that part aside. And he ends this poem in a way that is about mastering the world, which I really think should be about loving the world. But in this poem, If, he talks about kind of how to handle and to meet triumph and disaster and treat both imposters the same. I think great founders are able to hold these very difficult decisions, and the ambiguities, and hold them well, and sit with them, pray and trust the Lord through them, and make tough decisions that sometimes might not go the way you want. And that the best founders are those ones that can keep their head about them when all about them are losing theirs and blaming it on them, yet make allowance for their doubting too, is this line that's also in there. I think the only way I see to achieve these things that are very well articulated through this poem is through faith, prayer, and really, in many ways, vulnerability.
I think the best founders are vulnerable and I think some of the work that Brene Brown has done and the lessons there that have been inspired from a faith perspective, in many senses, from my understanding, are just incredible. And I think that's what I constantly look at is, Farmshelf can succeed, and I can fail as a founder. Farmshelf can succeed, and I can succeed as a founder. But Farmshelf can also fail and I succeed as a founder in a way that I steward it and went after it, and responded to the situations in the best way that I possibly could.
[00:31:30] JR: That's really good. One of the reasons why I asked you to come to the podcast, I think you're the only founder in this class of practice fellows that I asked to come on, was because in your pitch, I just saw so much energy and enthusiasm for the mission that you guys are on, and I think that's a huge difference between good and great founders, right? Are you cognizant of the fact that your energy can be an asset and a liability to the venture? Are you ever aware of that?
[00:32:01] AS: Definitely. I jokingly sometimes, we were like, the founder is, in many ways, the biggest asset and sometimes the biggest liability. That's why you need to know when to get out of your own way. Innovation, I think, comes from obsession and desperation. Like we see it in war a lot where like, we're obsessed with a certain outcome, but we're also desperate for it, because there's no other option in some ways. It's why limited capital helps you focus. And you're only focusing on one problem and it's like these Lean Startup methodologies. And so like, you really need to be obsessed with something in a way that, while still like, obviously, obsession is a tricky thing to deal with, that you need to hold it well still. So, it’s just that this product and what our mission is, and the ways that we can look at, how do we feed in love people in radical ways? Not just nutritionally, but emotionally, physically, communally. This is really a tool as a company to do that, and through that create incredible amounts of efficiency and wealth, for investors, for employees, for users, but also for the world as a whole. Using less resources to create more food, providing better nutrition through better quality produce, that enables people to live better lives. And then it's about community and with all these things, it's about people at the end of the day.
COVID wasn't easy on us. Luckily, investors really stepped up and backed us and helped us get through when kind of the corporate foodservice industry was also struggling, and we worked on – we built a product, this next gen product that, because of the level of focus that we were able to have, is so much better than anything I think we would have been able to make otherwise. It's kind of the silver lining. But in those moments where it feels like, are we going to make it, is this the right thing? Getting to hear from our customers, but also see kind of this vision that feels like it's been put on my heart for where this could go, I found myself like, just in tears, listening to a little bit of worship music at multiple times during tough moments of like, “Okay, I don't know how we're going to get there. But I know this is the right next step and just have faith and courage to take that.” Praying for wisdom to steward that opportunity well.
Including, and I think this is a healthy conversation to have as a founder in the right circles, and in safe situations. Is there a point at which it makes sense for you to step down as CEO, as founder, into a different role? You need to be a good steward of leadership, not just in the way that you are leading, but the way that you are also choosing to give that opportunity to someone else in small or big ways.
[00:34:44] JR: Yeah. Be willing to sacrifice that for the good of the mission. If you believe the missions from the Lord and this is part of how God's working in the world. I love it. Hey, take us through a typical day in your life. What is your typical routine from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, Andrew?
[00:34:59] AS: Yeah, so typical day, wake up around 7:30, quick breakfast and then either try and get a workout in if I'm a little bit groggy, or if I'm a little bit more awake, then I'll just jump into some quiet time, journaling, and writing a few things that I'm thankful for, for five minutes, just kind of setting an intention for the day. The reason I say sometimes, going for a run, because sometimes I don't want to sit there and journal and it's easier to just go for a run and think about things on that run. Then heading to the office, bouncing between various meetings with internal and external parties and then trying to set a real intentional segment of two to three hours of deep work time. Whether that's mid-day or late day, get out of the office by 6:30, try and plan at least one fun social thing a few times a week, dinner with a friend, community group, playing on a soccer team, and then try and not look at my phone after 9:30 at night and get to bed by 11:30.
[00:36:04] JR: So, you’re a night owl, you're later. The most guest –
[00:36:07] AS: Usually.
[00:36:08] JR: There's a valuable lesson here, because I was just writing about this in my next book, Redeeming Your Time, which is coming out in October. I think a lot of people listen to this podcast and most guests wake up at five. Brett Hagler, who is in practice, wakes up at 4, and people get discouraged. It's like, “Listen, if you're a night owl, as statistically, 30% of people are in this group, you should do deep work later in the day. You should do it when your energy is at the highest. Don't try to do deep work in the morning. Wait until your energy is at its best.” Did it take you a long time to figure that out, Andrew?
[00:36:46] AS: So, it's interesting in that I feel it has changed with the type of tasks that my job entails. When I was in finance, I was much more of a morning person, when it came to kind of these financial model items and very like, line-them-up-knock-them-down kind of tasks. But when it involves more creative work, or more strategic and people coordination work, that's when I started to move towards later in the day. In part because getting into conversation with people early in the day and kind of getting wound up if you will, through that, helped me do better at those tasks throughout the day. And then I take at least a 24 hours off straight every week. I try to do kind of Saturday evening to Sunday evening, just so I can get a few emails in. So, I don't have a full – Sunday’s a Sabbath, but really try to make it a Saturday evening to very late in the day Sunday so that I can prep a little bit before going to bed.
[00:37:43] JR: That's exactly what my family does. Saturday night to Sunday night. How long have you been Sabbathing and what has it meant for you?
[00:37:48] AS: The only time which I didn't was probably, in part of my time, I guess there was a time actually at Farmshelf. There's a segment.
[00:38:00] JR: So, you grew up Sabbathing?
[00:38:02] AS: Yeah.
[00:38:03] JR: Interesting.
[00:38:03] AS: I grew up in the Presbyterian Church, went to University of Presbyterian Seattle, Earl Palmer, awesome pastor, CS Lewis buff. Yeah, I grew up taking at least one day a week off, in part because like, you just can't be effective if you're not resting. Interesting, if you look at the 40-hour workweek, it wasn't created for some humanitarian reason. It was created because people thought that it, actually statistically, led to more efficient and overall output. So, it's like, okay, so on one side, we have this like, “Oh, yeah, I work all the time.” And sometimes you gotta put in the hours, but take time off to recharge and make sure you are. It's something I'm constantly trying to work on and do better at. I am not the best at the – I've heard a lot of founders talk about a one week vacation once a year. And that is something that, for the first four years of Farmshelf, I didn't do. I think we might have been in a little bit better place had I done that. But who knows?
[00:39:03] JR: So, I was thinking about this the other day, because I don't take a ton of time off either. But our Sabbath, one day of Sabbath, is more restful than four or five days of a typical “vacation” to me. So, in a sense, I have 52 of the most restful days. So, I’m taking 7 1/2 weeks of vacation. It's kind of how I look at it. It's just spread out every seven days. It's kind of how I think about it.
[00:39:35] AS: I think there's some like deep relaxing – the other thing is, I think there's some deep relaxation work that comes from like completely turning off for a few days, outside of just the weekly Sabbath, and that, for me that didn't look like and maybe I'll get in trouble for this. One vacation I took one time was like, yeah, a week off but during it, I did some journaling about like some strategy items and some changes and things that I wanted to do better. So, in some ways, some people would be like, “Oh, you were still working. You touched your computer, you thought about work.” But in many ways, it's like, how are you finding that time to reset and recharge even on work, where it's getting to kind of do the deep work?
I know Bill Gates is famous for taking his one week in a cabin to read books, and then come back with his ideas. If the type of work you do sparks that type of joy, and you like to work on problems, like while essentially on a vacation, if that recharges you, great. There's no one size fits all, especially for how to recharge. But I think it's like, I hear your point. But I would push back and be like, yeah, the the weekly Sabbath is totally necessary. But so is a little bit longer break.
[00:40:41] JR: I agree with that. I agree. In fact, this summer, I'm taking more time off this summer than I have in a long time, taking quite a few weeks off. So, I completely agree. Alright, three questions I love to wrap up every conversation with. Number one, which books do you find yourself recommending or gifting most frequently to others?
[00:41:00] AS: I really like the book Play Bigger.
[00:41:02] JR: I've never heard of this. What is this?
[00:41:05] AS: It is a business strategy book, how pirates, dreamers, and innovators create and dominate markets. And what I like about it, there's the CS Lewis quote that goes like, “It's not that our dreams are too big, it’s they're too small. We're far too easily pleased.” And sometimes I think about this with business, like, “Yo. Yeah, you need to stay focused, but what's your bigger dream? This could be so much grander if you just let yourself play a little bit into that, Well, what's possible? What could we pull off?” And invite other people into that.
[00:41:37] JR: And reminding ourselves that we worship the God who is capable of doing immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, right? Christ followers should be taking the biggest wings on the planet and so often we're not.
[00:41:48] AS: Taking the biggest swings on the planet and then also understanding that that does not always mean success, and that your confidence and your success is found elsewhere. Like we are not justified or successful or not, through work. It's really how we go through the process of stewarding and approaching those things.
[00:42:09] JR: Right, we take big swings, because of the security we have in the gospel, not so that we can earn any favor. We do it as a response of worship.
[00:42:17] AS: Yeah. And like, just how do we push ourselves to love more radically? We're called to love our enemy and we're called to love our neighbor. But the key thing in all these aspects, I think, of what are some of the most radical parts of Christianity, I mean, I love Crazy Love by Francis Chan. And there's a David Platt book that I think it might be worth stealing part of that, Radical. It's just like, how do we do that in ways that, you know, actions speak louder than words. It's great to talk about the gospel. It's so much better to work to bring that into your life and struggle through that. But also see the fruits of that spirit in loving people, knowing that we’ll fall short, but constantly pushing ourselves to love others in ways that are Christ like.
[00:43:04] JR: Yeah. Hey, who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith influences their work?
[00:43:10] AS: The immediate one that came to mind was Bob Goff, just because he is such a bold play bigger kind of guy. I would just go with his sons, who are also like the same type. So, maybe actually, Adam Goff.
[00:43:23] JR: Interesting.
[00:43:25] AS: Yeah. Because it's just I think he's an awesome guy, that it's just really fun to see the way his mind works and the way that he's been thinking about business and living his life.
[00:43:35] JR: That's a good answer. Alright, what's one thing from our conversation over the last hour that you want to reiterate to our listeners, before we sign off?
[00:43:45] AS: That it is about the journey from A to B and how you hold and steward that over the process, not about the arrival of, “This venture is successful, this made a ton of money.” I think it's one of those things, there's a saying that goes in, like fundraising, sometimes that's, “Ask for advice, get money. Ask for money, get advice.” And where I think you can take this and bring it to a spiritual level is if you focus on really loving others, adding value, and really pushing hard on challenging yourself to be vulnerable and take those risks in a way that I think, in many ways requires faith, that the success will come. It might look different than what you wanted. It might not be successful in your definition of it, but more likely than not the level of growth that you will have personally, the type of things that you'll be able to build will be so much greater than if you just focused on, “This is a successful outcome and that's the primary – that’s the only item I care about.” Yes, you gotta care about that and push things towards a successful company but those other aspects and areas are what will actually lead to the real success.
[00:44:55] JR: There’s a great John Piper quote, “My job is faithfulness. God's is fruitfulness.” We’re not responsible for the results at all. We’re called it being faithful and obedient and as you say, radically love people, period. Trust the results of the Lord.
[00:45:10] AS: Yep, show up and do what's in front of you and be the best steward of it that you can.
[00:45:13] JR: Hey, Andrew, I want to commend you for the incredibly important, redemptive work you're doing in the world and with Farmshelf. Thank you for your commitment to the ministry of excellence and thanks for hanging out with me today. Guys, you can learn more about Farmshelf at farmshelf.com. And if you want to follow Andrew, he's @Shearer on Twitter. Great handle, perk of working at Twitter and having a different last name, Andrew. Well done.
[00:45:39] AS: Thanks. Sometimes people think I'm a famous English soccer play, which I unfortunately am not. I wish he was my uncle, Alan Shearer, great guy. I heard.
[00:45:47] JR: There you go. I love it. Hey man, thanks for hanging out with us.
[00:45:51] AS: Thank you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:45:52] JR: Loved that episode. Love how Andrew’s thinking about his business as a means of caring for the world, but in particular, the poor and the marginalized. Hey, if you're enjoying the Call to Mastery, make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode in the future. If you're already subscribed, take 30 seconds right now to go leave a review of the podcast. I can't tell you how much those reviews mean to me and my team who reads every single one of them. Just go out and encourage this team of producers on this show in this work. Hey, thank you guys so much for tuning in. I'll see you next time.
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