Health and hobbies for the glory of God
Jordan Raynor sits down with Alec Avierinos, 2X World Champion obstacle course racer, to talk about what happens to you mentally when you run a 24-hour obstacle race, how hobbies can make us more masterful at our vocations, and why you should “write your vision in pen and your plans in pencil.”
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[0:00:05.3] JR: Hey, there. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I’m Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work, for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I’m hosting a conversation with a somebody who is following Christ and also pursuing mastery of their vocation. We’re talking about their path to mastery, their daily habits and routines and how their faith influences their work.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:30.0] JR: Today, I’m sharing what I think is the first ever episode with an athlete, a truly world-class athlete. I’m talking to Alec Avierinos, the two-time world champion of the endurance Obstacle Course Race. This is a 24-hour race of totally impossible, physical endurance or at least impossible for Jordan Raynor, obviously not for Alec. But two-time world champion, indisputable world class masterful athlete.
And in this episode, we had a lot of fun, we talked about what happens to you mentally when you're running a 24-hour obstacle race. In fact, I think Alec said, his longest race ever was like 140 hours or something like that, something absurd that definitely certifies him as crazy. We talked about how hobbies outside of your one thing, your vocational discipline can actually make you more masterful at your core vocation and we talked about why you should quote, write your vision in pen and your plans in pencil.
Without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Alec Avierinos.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:42.2] JR: Hey, Alec. Thank you so much for joining me. I think, by the way, I think you officially win the award for the longest geographical distance calling in from South Africa. How are things in South Africa today?
[0:01:52.8] AA: Warm. Sunny.
[0:01:54.7] JR: There you go, as always, right?
[0:01:56.5] AA: Yeah, we’ve got bright weather if nothing else, that’s for sure.
[0:02:00.9] JR: I’ve never been to South Africa, I’ve always wanted to go but like, you know, where do you go in South Africa. If you're going to South Africa for the first time for vacation, is Johannesburg the spot? Where do most people kind of land into South Africa>
[0:02:15.4] AA: Well, you would typically land at Johannesburg International Airport but that’s not really a destination for holidaying. Most people that come out for holidays go to the coast to Cape Town or they go to the cougar park or one of the other private nature where you can go on a safari.
[0:02:37.4] JR: Yeah. I got to do that sometime.
[0:02:38.9] AA: Yeah. It’s really good and it’s really great for you coming over from the States because the currency is 15 to one so when you get here, everything’s virtually free.
[0:02:51.8] JR: That’s amazing. Yeah, I got to do that. I think the kids would enjoy a safari at some point once they get a little bit older.
[0:02:57.4] AA: How old are they now, Jordan?
[0:02:59.6] JR: Yeah, I got a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and a new born.
[0:03:04.0] AA: Wow, okay.
[0:03:05.3] JR: Yeah, they’re a little young to go safari-ing in South Africa. But one of these days.
[0:03:11.4] AA: Yeah, a little but although my youngest is just 20 and she’s in university. And then I’ve got another daughter, 22 also, still at university. And then my two boys are 24 and 25 and they are trying to make their way in life now.
[0:03:29.0] JR: That’s awesome, that’s fun. Alec, let’s start here. For our listeners who don’t’ know, what is an obstacle course race?
[0:03:36.9] AA: They would probably be familiar with it through a brand like Spartan in the states or Tough Mudder. It’s a military style obstacle course where you not only have to do trail running but you have to climb and carry and drag and get through hanging obstacles. I think Spartan is by far the most popular brand in the States and it should be very well known but obstacle course racing, world championships is organized, out of America as well, a chap by the name of Adrian [inaudible 0:04:12], heads it up and has been very successfully running it for the last six years.
[0:04:19.4] JR: And the one that you compete in is 24 hours long? Is that right?
[0:04:23.4] AA: Yeah, so you get different disciplines within obstacle course racing. So from sprint racing, which is about a hundred meters and 10 obstacles, it then goes up in distance and normally, the obstacles get progressively harder as the distances get longer or at least they do in South Africa. And the standard here is about 15 kilometers with about 30 obstacles. But when you go to the ultra-distance, the hanging obstacles tend to get a little bit easier and the carries like sandbags and things like that get harder and you’re racing on an 11-kilometer lap and the objective is to do as many laps as you possibly can within the 24 hour period.
[0:05:15.3] JR: That’s insane. I mean, I’m sure you get told that a lot. But that’s certifiably crazy. So you're running this race for 24 hours. What are you thinking about? Where is your mind for that 24 hour just intensive on your body?
[0:05:33.4] AA: It’s a very interesting question because I’ve thought about it a lot. And apart from just focusing on the next obstacle or the next run leg and trying to plan your nutrition, you don’t really or I don’t really worry too much about how much of the race is left to compete and then complete. But I had won the race in 2018 and again in 2019 for the old man category, the 50 plus category. But yeah, in the very different races. In year one, sort of I was completely unknown and I managed to lead from start to finish and win with a really decent margin over the competition. And in year two, my competition was unknown to me but they all knew who I was. I ended up having a very different race in the second year, considerably tougher.
[0:06:37.0] JR: That’s so interesting. You’re out there, especially that second year, you know people are gunning for you, right? I’m sure you’ve got a lot of these different thoughts going through your mind. I’ve always been really interested in how people practically apply Paul’s instruction to take thoughts captive and I think running a 24-hour obstacle course race as a world champion is like a really interesting setting to think about that question.
I’m sure there are lots of thoughts fighting for your attention as you run the race. How practically do you take “them captive,” right? And put them in their proper place so that you can persevere and run that race?
[0:07:14.6] AA: Yeah, it was hard and you’re 100% correct. You have to be able to subject your body to the instructions of your mind. And actually, I’ll give you a very good example of how it works. When my daughter started racing with me and she was still tiny, after a hard race, I asked her how she was feeling. And she said no, it was hard but she pretended she was a horse and the rider was telling her to go. That’s pretty much sums it up. You know your body is capable and when you get to a place where you think you can’t do anymore, you only really at about 40% of what you’re capable of doing.
In that particular race, I was really in a bad way at 40 kilometers and I ended up totaling 130. So I did almost a hundred kilometers after justifiably could have and should have quit.
[0:08:17.1] JR: Wow, hundred kilometers so for us in the States, we’re talking 60 to 70 miles. It looks like you ran, right? Is that right?
[0:08:24.4] AA: Yes.
[0:08:25.1] JR: That’s unbelievable. All right, let’s shift for a minute, we’ve been talking about master of your craft in the world of racing. But I want to talk about your work outside of racing because what pays the bills, I would imagine in your life is your work as the Managing Director of this impressive software development company. Racing seems like, this is an avocation for you, right? A second vocation, a hobby.
How do you ensure that you are excellent at the day job while also pursuing mastery of your sport?
[0:08:56.0] AA: That’s a good question. I think that’s interesting how I got to where I am as a sort of serial entrepreneur. If I go back and I just give you a little bit of history. I pretty much like you, started out with marbles at school and then breeding and selling a variety of pets. I then, at that stage, I was very keen on surfing, my dad got me a job at a fiberglass factory where the owner taught me all about how to work with fiberglass and ultimately how to shape and manufacture surfboards. From there, got into manufacturing radomes and insulated equipment shelters.
And only then did we, as the cellular industry started to mature in South Africa, we started looking for new markets. I got into building computer labs and Internet cafes inside mobile insulated equipment shelters. And unfortunately, started doing some pretty big business deals with the government which ended up being my undoing.
Through this period, the sport really helped me between my faith and my sport could actually go through a period where the business went into business rescue and then ultimately it was liquidated. And in the process, I started a new business from scratch. I salvaged the software component out of the previous manufacturing company, scaled it right down. Now, and you have about 12 staff as supposed to close to 120 at one stage. And focused purely on software, on app development.
And actually, ended up in the healthcare space, building client facing apps for medical insurers. Yeah. The short answer is as an entrepreneur, I ended up in the software space but I’m not a software engineer so I can’t even write a line of code.
[0:11:11.9] JR: We have very similar stories there. My whole career has been in software and tech and as an entrepreneur, not being able to write a line of code but I understand it, right? And read beautiful code. Let me ask you this. I’ve heard arguments that hobbies, really serious hobbies like racing for you. Can make you better at your main vocation, right? In your case, your craft as an entrepreneur.
Have you found that to be true, have you found that your kind of hobby of racing has made you a better entrepreneur? And if so, how specifically does racing involve your performance at the office aside from obviously you know, health, right? Physical health. How else has it affected your work as an entrepreneur?
[0:11:53.2] AA: On the whole, I think the self-discipline and perseverance that you learn through sport is directly attributable to business success. Knowing that you can overcome and that you can persevere and that the situation that you are in is temporary and it will pass definitely helps you to get through hard times in business.
When things went pear shape, I ended up with a fair amount of debt. And had to start a new business from scratch with debt. At the same time, full service my mortgage and look after my family and not lose focus on being able to succeed in sports. I think, as a rule, people don’t realize what they are capable of. I mean, the lord has made us magnificently. We are the most incredible machine that you can ever possibly imagine. And if we do things right according to his instruction, our bodies are capable of unimaginable feats of physical and mental prowess.
[0:13:13.9] JR: No, that’s very well said. Speaking of that well-oiled machine of humanity. I’m really curious about your daily routine, right? You’re super productive. Inside, outside of work, from the outside looking in, it looks like you have a great relationship with your family, with your kids. I’m just curious, from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, what does a typical day look for you Alec?
[0:13:36.9] AA: Yeah. I don’t necessarily recommend my recipe for others. I normally wake up between three and 3:30 AM so on the early side of early rising. Start my day with about half a liter of water with a little bit of apple cider vinegar and lemon juice. Sometimes some Himalayan salt in that. And then about half an hour after that, after I’ve been to the loo, I have a cup of coffee. And in the meantime, I started with my quiet time, where I spend time in The Bible App going through a devotional and reading and studying, meditating and praying.
And then, that sort of lasts normally for about an hour. And then I move over to planning my work day and spending time preparing for my work day. And then around about 5:00, between five and seven, I go and start training. I’m very fortunate we’ve got a phenomenal property and my son runs a commercial gym called Jokes Aside from our property and it’s a functional gym setup. I’ve got trail running and tires to pull and obstacles to climb.
And then all of your normal cardio machines like SkiErgs and the SALT Bikes and rowing machines and the normal gym equipment, kettle bells and all that sort of stuff. I keep myself busy there for about normally in the mornings it is between half an hour and an hour.
And then I am at the office, which is fortunately very close. I am at the office at about eight. I normally don’t travel all that much and then head home around about 4 PM.
And then in the evenings now I’ve got a slightly new routine. I’ve started coaching, well, it differs every day. But I’ve got a whole bunch of old timers that are trying to get off the couch and get healthy and fit. So, between five and six I will work out with them and then have dinner. At the moment I only eat once a day, normally dinner with the family and then get to bed. I am normally in bed around about nine, 9:30 at the latest and that’s pretty much my day.
[0:16:07.9] JR: Wow. So, you mentioned for your quiet times, spending time in The Bible App. I am assuming you mean the YouVersion Bible App. Is that where you discovered my content for the first time?
[0:16:17.5] AA: Yes, is it.
[0:16:18.5] JR: Okay, interesting. That’s funny. So, I am really curious have you read any really great plans lately? Not mine, other people’s plans that you would recommend to others?
[0:16:28.2] AA: Yeah, I am a big fan of Craig Groeschel. And he’s got a number of really awesome plans and his theme at the moment as a church sermon series is quite great. It ties in with what I am up to at the moment. He is calling it, ‘The Warrior Series,’ and to circle back, you know since coming back from world champs of really sort of been impressed upon by the Lord to try and focus on helping others to lead victorious, purposed, healthy lives.
We’ve really got a serious situation with lifestyle diseases. Well not only in South Africa but in the States too. And yeah, I believe that there is a lot of Christians that they go to the Bible spiritual instruction that they ignore all nutritional and physical instruction that was given to look after and cherish and nurture our bodies. And if your body isn’t healthy you need to house your mind in a healthy body in order for you to be able to live out your purpose and to put the effort into the Lord’s kingdom and doing something of meaning.
And you can do much better if you’re healthy. So, I am trying to get and encourage as many as possible to pursue a healthy lifestyle.
[0:18:02.8] JR: I love that and so getting a little bit more practical there, right? So, I have read some of your thoughts on this topic, right and talking about the ideal priorities for life being your number one spiritual, number two, mind and soul and number three body, right? Physical fitness. Can you talk about those priorities and why you put them in that order?
[0:18:22.5] AA: Well the most important is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. And a lot of people think that that’s the ticket to heaven and that is the end of the journey. But that is really just the beginning and you really need to renew your mind and there is more than enough content out there to help you do this, Biblical content. And if you understand who you are in Christ, that you are an overcomer and that you are wonderfully and masterfully created and that the Holy Spirit lives and dwells within you and empowers you on a daily basis, it really sets you up for success.
And once you get that right and you are then able to be obedient to the Word, the Bible is very clear over and over and over again. We’re called to act on what the instructions are that we’re given in the Bible. Not robotically but out of love and out of respect, worship, yes. And when you’re committed from that place and you realize that there is a right and a wrong way to do things and if you’re prepared to make small habitual changes based on the Word, then you are going to become more and more victorious and successful in your daily life and people overlook that, you know?
I suppose to a certain extent we understand the principle of brushing your teeth daily in order to make sure that you don’t get cavities. But they don’t carry that through to exercising daily or to their nutrition. You know once you start applying things that you learned spiritually into the physical body then you really start to be more victorious in your daily life.
[0:20:26.1] JR: Yeah. So, Alec, you have mentioned the word victory a lot and us being victorious in life. And obviously to do that we have to be healthy. I am really curious as a world champion athlete, how has the Gospel specifically impacted how you think about victory and defeat, right? So obviously you’re running to win as Paul says but how does the Gospel affect your outlook on the outcome of your striving and the outcome of your pursuit of mastery of your craft?
[0:20:58.2] AA: I think the Gospel, I think it’s very clear that we need not be defined by our successes or our failures. Our view on understanding of who we are as victorious in Christ, there is nothing that we can do to earn that. So, it’s a bonus that my performance is good enough to win world champs. I went to do my best and my best was good enough to win but had I not won, I would have come away from that knowing that I had done my best and I would have been satisfied with the result regardless of what it was.
So fortunately, and I think in year two, where I had to dig deep. You know you talk about those marginal gains that if I compare year one and year two, in year two I arrived possibly over confident. I went almost 10 kilos lighter, considerably fitter and maybe a little arrogant and the race cut me down to size. My competitor cut me down to size and I had to be able to draw on and one of the things that I go through over and over and over in my mind in situations like that is a saying that my mom taught me it comes back through generations in the family.
And it basically says, “Good-better-best, let us never rest until our good is better and our better best.” And that’s what I try to do whether I’m training, whether I am working, whatever I try to do is I am trying to do better than what I did previously and striving to do my best. And hopefully that’s good enough to get the result that I want and I don’t know if that answers your question, Jordan?
[0:23:02.5] JR: You articulated it better than I ever could have, right? To think of the Gospel gives us the security, the victory in Christ, the ultimate victory in Christ and allows us to approach the pursuit of mastery with great confidence, right? That in victory or defeat we are still in Christ.
You know you are talking about being content in all things. It reminds me of Philippians 4:13, right? “I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” We take that verse out of content so much especially in sports as we use it as kind of a mini-motivational speech. You know, “I can do all things. I can win this race through Christ who strengthens me.” When the context of that verse is about contentment, right?
Paul talks about how he can be content in all things through Christ who strengthens him. He can be content whether he is victorious or defeated because he has the ultimate victory in Christ and your life is such a great example of that, Alec.
So, hey Alec I got three questions I want to end with I try to ask every single guest that comes on The Call to Mastery. First one, I am really curious, which books do you recommend or give away the most to other people?
[0:24:08.3] AA: I am not trying to suck up to you but I really like your book and I have been trying to get as many hands on Called to Create, think as an entrepreneur coming closer to home. My son studied entrepreneurship at university and went straight into the mission field. So, you know there’s this continual tug between the perception that you need to be in ministry and in the mission field to be serving the Lord. When actually we are all called to create and your book articulated it so well. And that was such a parallel to my life that that’s definitely one. I am looking forward to reading your new book when I get it.
Another one that really benefited me was by Dave Yarnes. It is called the Three Circle Strategy for a Fulfilling Life, which is really good. And then a little closer to home, a course by who’s become a really good friend of mine, Gavin Porter and he does a course called God’s Vision and God’s Mission where he basically traces the Lord’s objective right through from Genesis through Revelation and gives you a really clear understanding. And in the process, you really get to understand who you are in Christ.
[0:25:42.4] JR: I love that. Alec, what one person would you most like to hear talk about how their faith influences their work on this podcast?
[0:25:50.1] AA: I think you would have a really good conversation with Craig Groeschel. I know he’s a pastor but he is a tremendous business leader. He’s got unbelievable insight into how to apply the Biblical instruction into leadership. And I would really like to hear the two of you having a chat.
[0:26:15.5] JR: Yeah, Craig’s a great answer I mean for obvious reasons on this podcast we are trying to highlight people like you who are doing ministry outside of the four walls of the church. But you’re right. Craig is such a phenomenal leader and has so much wisdom to share on the topic of leadership as has been informed by his relationship with Christ and his leadership of His church. So, I actually like that answer a lot. We’ll try to get Craig on.
All right, last question, Alec, what single piece of advice would you give to somebody who like you is trying to do their most masterful work, their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others?
[0:26:49.3] AA: They need to be persistent. They need to put small habits that they can stick to and they basically just need to doggedly stick to it. They need to write their vision down in pen and write their plans down in pencil, focus on the end objective and just get stuck in. And that’s what we should be doing and doing it to the best of our ability.
[0:27:16.2] JR: I love what you just said, “Write your vision down in pen and your plans down in pencil. That jives really well with we heard Horst Schulze, the co-founder of the Ritz Carlton on the podcast awhile back and it is very similar to what he said, right? If God’s given you a vision that doesn’t change. But the way to get there, the plans, the strategy the tactics, those things change over time.
So, hey Alec, I just want to commend you for just your perseverance in pursuing the work that you feel called to master. Thank you for your gospel centric approach to competing as an athlete for your model of discipline and grit and yeah just thank you for your commitment to mastering your work inside and outside of the office as a means of glorifying God.
Hey, if you’re interested in connecting with Alec be sure to check out his website, almightywarriors.co.za. He’s got a fantastic e-book right there that I have perused with some great practical tips on how to live your most healthy life with the glory of God. And to ensure that you can do your most masterful work for the glory of God and the good of others.
Alec, thank you so much for hanging out with me and having a conversation here on The Call to Mastery.
[0:28:26.5] AA: Thank you, Jordan. It’s been a pleasure and please keep up the good work. You are an inspiration to many.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:28:35.0] JR: What a terrific episode. Alec is an inspiration to say the least. It makes me feel terrible about my life and physique. But hey, that is what the Call to Mastery is all about, right? Pushing us all to be better, healthier, more masterful for the Glory of God and the good of others.
So hey, if you enjoyed this episode, do me a huge favor. Go take 20 seconds, 30 seconds and go review the Call to Mastery on Apply Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you are not already subscribed, make sure you hit the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode in the future. Thank you, guys, so much for listening to this episode of the Call to Mastery. I’ll see you next week!
[END]